Drug Tests

[Flyndaran]

I give: I give. I admit defeat to your logic Broomjockey. I mean that with no sarcasm. That tone you hear is just a bad habit in the way I write and talk.
Drat. This makes the second thread in which I failed at convincing others of my viewpoint.

[DrFaroohk]

I have to agree with you, Flyn, they do seem to have their shit together on a lot of their "logic" based arguments. Still, I don't feel like what I'm doing is "mental gymnastics"...that's just how I feel about some things. Yeah, I admit someone can "make a statement" by not saying anything, but also in this instance I didn't lie about anything. Maybe it IS just a technicality, but isn't that what life is made up of? I've got people throwing them in my face every minute of every day, don't I ever get to use them for my own benefit or is it just for everyone else to use to fuck with me?

It just sucks that I didn't get this job for something stupid. Yes I know it's illegal. It's also not a big freakin' deal. I smoke pot at home. I'm not doing it before work or at work. I don't sell it, I don't go cause a big scene when I can't have any. It's not coke or meth or oxycodone. I don't steal or suck dicks to support it. It's not even a major crime where I live! It's like a speeding ticket here. And the job? I'm not driving heavy machinery, handing out sensitive medications or working for a congressman. It's friggin wal-mart! Wally-world. You could actually BE stoned and still pull off a job there. And I wasn't even trying to get away with doing that much.

Can someone honestly even say it's a big image killer for them? I would be willing to bet money that this conversation has NEVER HAPPENED:

"Hey, we need diapers. Let's go to wal-mart."

"What? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? THERE'S A GUY THERE WHO SMOKES POT! I'M NEVER SHOPPING THERE AGAIN!!!"

On the upside, I'm glad I don't work for a company that invades my privacy in such a way. I really don't like the notion that a company can dictate what you do off the clock. Someone else posted a similar analogy to this: I have a deal with a company. They pay me 10 dollars, and in exchange I do one hour of work for them. During that hour, I will behave how they want, I will dress how they want, I will do pretty much anything they want for that hour. For about an 8 hour day.

But then all of a sudden, not only do I have to do what they say for that 8 hours, but I have to continue doing what they say for an additional 16 hours after I get off work! To make it worse, do you think I keep getting 10 dollars an hour for that time? NOPE! They're making me behave in a manner that they dictate without even paying me! So essentially I'm getting not 10 dollars an hour, but in fact 1/3 of that. How can they honestly justify that? I'm not totally against a company dictating some personal behaviors...obviously you can't have serial killers working for you. But it seems, especially in this shitty point in our economy, that employers are taking advantage of their ability to control us.

[Greenday]

But then all of a sudden, not only do I have to do what they say for that 8 hours, but I have to continue doing what they say for an additional 16 hours after I get off work! To make it worse, do you think I keep getting 10 dollars an hour for that time? NOPE! They're making me behave in a manner that they dictate without even paying me! So essentially I'm getting not 10 dollars an hour, but in fact 1/3 of that. How can they honestly justify that? I'm not totally against a company dictating some personal behaviors...obviously you can't have serial killers working for you. But it seems, especially in this shitty point in our economy, that employers are taking advantage of their ability to control us.

Can you garuantee that your drug use won't ever affect you on the job? Nope, so the company has pretty valid reasons for not wanting employees to do drugs on or off the clock. Alls they are asking is that you don't break the law and I don't think you should get paid to do that, since it's something EVERYONE is required to do without getting paid for it.

As for companies taking advantage of their ability to control us, the economy has nothing to do with it. These policies have been in effect for years.

[Boozy]

Can you garuantee that your drug use won't ever affect you on the job? Nope, so the company has pretty valid reasons for not wanting employees to do drugs on or off the clock.

That's a pretty weak argument. No one can ever guarantee that their lives won't at times affect their work. The same question could be asked of those with children, weak immune systems, stressful home situations, unreliable transportation, side effects from medication, lousy diets, and those who stay up all night playing WOW. How much of our lives are we going to allow our employers to dictate?

In fact, casual and recreational pot use is one of the simplest influences to control. One just wouldn't smoke pot the day before or during work, and the likelihood of it affecting their performance is close to nil.

[Greenday]

In fact, casual and recreational pot use is one of the simplest influences to control. One just wouldn't smoke pot the day before or during work, and the likelihood of it affecting their performance is close to nil.

Ok, so we start out with it's ok to smoke a day before work. Then it becomes it's ok to smoke the night before work. Then it's ok to smoke the morning of work. Then it's ok to smoke right before work. Then it's ok to smoke during work. Where does it end? No one is going to agree on a specific time. And yes, it WILL affect performance as all drugs decrease your abilities in some way or another, which is a proven fact.

The difference between banning weed consumption and having kids, WoW, stressful home situations etc. is that weed is illegal. That's why drug consumption is banned completely from various workplaces and the others are not.

[LeChatNoir]

As kind of an aside...DrFaroohk, if you had gotten the job (say you quit smoking long enough to pass the drug test for example), Wal-Mart does require drug testing if you ever injure yourself at work. And if you refuse, you're pretty much fucked anyway. My mom (who also works at Wal-Mart) had a can of air freshener randomly fall on her head, causing her to need several stitches. Wal-Mart sent a guy to the hospital to check her urine for drugs.

Hubby and I both work at Wally world. I smoked pot for the first time on Christmas day this past year. I waited about 3 months to try finding a new job (I knew I wanted to start looking), just to make sure everything was out of my system. I haven't smoked since, it really wasn't right for me, but I knew what the risks were when I wanted to start job hunting.

You could always quit smoking for now, wait a few months, and then try to get another job. It's the safest way to ensure that your recreational habits don't interfere with potential employment opportunities.

[Pedersen]

I have to agree with you, Flyn, they do seem to have their shit together on a lot of their "logic" based arguments. Still, I don't feel like what I'm doing is "mental gymnastics"...that's just how I feel about some things. Yeah, I admit someone can "make a statement" by not saying anything, but also in this instance I didn't lie about anything. Maybe it IS just a technicality, but isn't that what life is made up of? I've got people throwing them in my face every minute of every day, don't I ever get to use them for my own benefit or is it just for everyone else to use to fuck with me?

Yes, you get to use them when you're right. See, the problem here is that you did lie, and you got caught.

Again, they asked if you do drugs. Again, you responded in the negative by hoping to be flagged as a false negative.

The fact that you did not utter the words "I do not smoke pot" is irrelevant. You made a statement by taking a test that you knew you would not pass. You lied.

It doesn't matter if you don't like it. It doesn't matter if you feel you didn't lie, since you didn't say the words out loud.

You lied. Now you have to face the consequences.

[Flyndaran]

So it's wrong to lie even when asked a question that is none of their damn business? I would say that what I do off work is none of their business. Others here seem to think it is.

[AFPheonix]

Ok, so we start out with it's ok to smoke a day before work. Then it becomes it's ok to smoke the night before work. Then it's ok to smoke the morning of work. Then it's ok to smoke right before work. Then it's ok to smoke during work. Where does it end? No one is going to agree on a specific time. And yes, it WILL affect performance as all drugs decrease your abilities in some way or another, which is a proven fact.

The difference between banning weed consumption and having kids, WoW, stressful home situations etc. is that weed is illegal. That's why drug consumption is banned completely from various workplaces and the others are not.

I think at this point, everyone agrees that because of the legality of the thing, it probably shouldn't be done, at least openly.
However, pot is one of those drugs that isn't really all that horrible. It's not even in the same DEA schedule as other illegal street drugs. It's classed more as a CIII, the same as Vicodin.
An
d while people who have a propensity for addiction will have a problem with it, not everyone will, just like how some people have serious issues with Vicodn, but not everyone who gets 12 from the dentist gets hooked.
Most users (and there are many, present company excluded, although several of my sisters partake) are able to do so recreationally and doon't let it interfere with their work or other serious parts of their lives.

[BroomJockey]

So it's wrong to lie even when asked a question that is none of their damn business? I would say that what I do off work is none of their business.

Then SAY "I don't believe it is any of your business." It IS wrong to lie. It's too easy to fall in to the trap of it becoming easier to lie than tell the truth. We've already gone on the merry-go-round of whether it actually affects your work or not, so I won't rehash that part of the argument.

[crazylegs]

So it's wrong to lie even when asked a question that is none of their damn business? I would say that what I do off work is none of their business. Others here seem to think it is.

With my job I cannot, under any circumstances, associate with known criminals, and even associating with those on the fringes of criminality would prompt some raising of eyebrows. It is entirely reasonable of the job to ask for, and me to provide, samples for drug testing. Not only would I be associating with criminals but also be actively involved in criminal activity, which is rather the opposite of my job!

Basically I cannot do anything which places me at risk of blackmail, and commiting a criminal act comes under this.

[Flyndaran]

...
Basically I cannot do anything which places me at risk of blackmail, and commiting a criminal act comes under this.

May I ask what your job is? Your phrasing make you sound like a parole officer, which I guess would make one suspect for criminal activity sadly.

I just have trouble with treating people like criminals without just cause.

[anriana]

Ok, so we start out with it's ok to smoke a day before work. Then it becomes it's ok to smoke the night before work. Then it's ok to smoke the morning of work. Then it's ok to smoke right before work. Then it's ok to smoke during work. Where does it end? No one is going to agree on a specific time. And yes, it WILL affect performance as all drugs decrease your abilities in some way or another, which is a proven fact.

The difference between banning weed consumption and having kids, WoW, stressful home situations etc. is that weed is illegal. That's why drug consumption is banned completely from various workplaces and the others are not.

Hey that sounds like the slippery slope argument.

[BroomJockey]

May I ask what your job is? Your phrasing make you sound like a parole officer, which I guess would make one suspect for criminal activity sadly.

I forget the exact terminology, but it's almost like the UK version of a Peace Officer.

[Greenday]

Hey that sounds like the slippery slope argument.

Damnit, I've been found out.