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  • Childfree, Childless, etc.

    This isn't an all out rant, just something that piques my interest and makes me raise my eyebrows on occasion.

    A while ago, someone on this board started a thread titled "How Dare You Not Want to Spawn!" In this thread, people who have chosen not to be parents shared grievances about being pestered over their choices. This is perfectly understandable, since we all want to be treated like responsible, sentient adults who can make our own decisions with good judgment. In fact, I was able to identify with many of the people who responded to that thread, since I, too, have pretty much decided that I am not going to have kids.

    Other people who have chosen not to have kids have banded together and formed groups. A Google search will turn up several message boards, web sites, and possibly some blogs centered around this decision. Some of them call themselves "Childless by Choice." Others call themselves "Childfree." This gets to the part that sometimes gets to me.

    There seems to be this sentiment among many of these people that they are doing something new and trend-setting that no one else has ever done before. In other words, many of them appear to think that willfully living your life as a childless married couple is something that people just started doing within the last ten years, when in fact, people have been doing it ever since contraception was invented. There are several couples in my family who have never had children (at their own choice), and almost all of them are baby boomers or older. My grandmother is friends with a woman in her 70s, and this woman never had children with her late husband to whom she had been married to for over forty years before he died. Though, to be fair, there are many die hard child-lovers who hold these same sentiments as well.

    I know this probably sounds petty on my part, but this is something that really stands out to me. Granted, I'm speaking from my own biased viewpoint, since I did come from a family where several people have chosen not to have children. For this reason, this decision has always seemed natural and normal to me. I'm sure to someone who comes from a really large family where almost everyone has several kids, this decision might appear new and innovative.

  • #2
    There are several benefits given to parents in our society, just because they had a child. This is the main contention with people who are childfree. That you have to have a child, to get certain benefits. Or you end up having to support people who chose to have a child, such as a mother getting time off after having a baby, and the childfree person having to pick up their slack at the office.

    The ideal situation is that parents would be fully responsible for their decision, such as the mother not getting maternity leave pay, while someone childfree does their job for them while they're gone. Many people who hear this first go, "What about the baaaayyyyybbbbeee!" which is besides the point, that the mother knew she was going to have a child, and should have bothered to prepare ahead of time to have the money for it, rather than leeching off others with pleas of sympathy.

    There also is the issue of parents being extremely rude to people who are not parents. This concerns me because I have a condition known as Hyperacusis, which means I have a sensitivity to sudden loud sounds. Children are known to make sudden loud sounds, yet when I try explaining my situation to a parent, they act as if I personally went out of my way to offend their child. Stating their child NEVER misbehaves, or other delusional claims, that anyone who isn't the parent can see clear as day.

    So in essence, I have to live my life at the mercy of parents who are overzelous in protecting their child, from the world. Now, here is usually where people say, "But you can't expect the world to change for you!" I'm not asking for that. I'm simply suggesting I should be able to eat at a restaurant, without the noise I'd find at a Chuck E Cheese arcade. I've given up on this, since it's easier just to explain the situation to the waiter, and try and avoid the parents altogether because they really seem to be oblvious to the idea that non parents have just a right to share this world as they and their baby do.
    Last edited by Boozy; 08-31-2009, 01:40 PM. Reason: No need to quote the whole OP -- we just read it.

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    • #3
      To some extent, the childless need to be supportive of those who do decide to have children. A society cannot continue without people in it. In 30, 40, 50 years, the child-free person and their generation is going to be retired. The younger generation will be growing their food and delivering it to their neighbourhood stores, building their retirement homes, paving their roads, etc. Some cooperation is needed from everyone to ensure the continuation of society.

      I don't necessarily agree with everything parents may ask for, but parental leave is important. When infants get plenty of one-on-one attention in their early years, the result is a smarter, healthier population. We all benefit from that.

      Maybe one horrible day in the future we will all live in self-sufficient underground bunkers with robot servants. Until then, it's in our best interests to cooperate with those who raise the next generation.

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      • #4
        Ugh...the co-workers with children...how I don't miss them!

        "Hey, I can't work Monday morning because Robbie has a doctor's appointment. And I can't work Monday afternoon because Robbie has a little league game. And I can't work Tuesday morning because Robbie and I are going to visit his grandmother. And Tuesday afternoon doesn't work either. Little League Practice. And I can't come in Wednesday.........Thursday.........Friday........o r Saturday......but I'm free on Sunday!"

        "We're not even open on Sunday!"

        "HEY! I'LL SUE YOU! YOU HAVE TO WORK AROUND MY SCHEDULE CUZ I HAVE KIDS! THAT'S THE LAW!"

        Yeah. Seriously.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Boozy View Post
          Until then, it's in our best interests to cooperate with those who raise the next generation.
          I look at some "parents" and their kids and think that I wouldn't want them making any real decisions, be it for me or anyone else. Yes, kids can and do change, but it seems to me at least that a portion of kids are being raised to be serious EWs if not worse (I "grew up" with a major bully--come elementary school graduation he is thrown in jail for assaulting a cop...his friend didn't fare much better only a few months into high school).
          Last edited by Dreamstalker; 08-31-2009, 02:53 PM.
          "Any state, any entity, any ideology which fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete."

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          • #6
            I think this wikipedia link fits in with this thread:

            Voluntary Human Extinction Movement
            The key to an open mind is understanding everything you know is wrong.

            my blog
            my brother's

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Boozy View Post
              To some extent, the childless need to be supportive of those who do decide to have children. A society cannot continue without people in it. In 30, 40, 50 years, the child-free person and their generation is going to be retired. The younger generation will be growing their food and delivering it to their neighbourhood stores, building their retirement homes, paving their roads, etc. Some cooperation is needed from everyone to ensure the continuation of society.

              I don't necessarily agree with everything parents may ask for, but parental leave is important. When infants get plenty of one-on-one attention in their early years, the result is a smarter, healthier population. We all benefit from that.

              Maybe one horrible day in the future we will all live in self-sufficient underground bunkers with robot servants. Until then, it's in our best interests to cooperate with those who raise the next generation.
              I'd agree with you, if we already weren't facing overpopulation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by violetyoshi View Post
                I'd agree with you, if we already weren't facing overpopulation.
                So the development and education of the next generation of citizens shouldn't matter, since there are so many of them?

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                • #9
                  Got news for everyone here who thinks I, or any coworkers I ever had with chidren, got favors from work because we had kids:

                  Nobody did any of us any favors. That time we took off? That was time we had earned....it's called "leave" and we are entitled to it as part of our benefits.

                  Nobody seems to mind if you take sick time, or vacation time, but the minute you take any sort of leave to care for a child...in my case, it was vacation time or a personal day, usually....everyone loses their shit because they want to act like we aren't entitled to it.

                  Most of the time, I actually came back at night to finish a job so I'd make my deadline. I'd save up leave and vacation time in case I neede it for my child. I asked for absolutely no favors.

                  Don't want to hear the bitching about "special favors' awarded parents. It's horsehit.

                  NOTE TO PEOPLE GETTING BADGERED ABOUT THEIR CHOICE TO REMAIN CHILDLESS: I feel your pain. You get it even when it's not your choice. Also, it doesn't end once you have a kid, either. I'm pushing 50 and morons STILL ask me when I'm having another one, if you can believe that. Stupid people do dearly love to ask some stupid questions.

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                  • #10
                    This might be slightly off-topic, but I find it interesting...

                    I've known my husband for over 12 years. We've been dating for about 2 years. We got married about 3 weeks ago. Within the last 3 weeks, I've had several people ask me if we're trying/going to try to have children; before we got married, I'd never been asked except by my own parents. I just find it amusing that so many people have the mentality of "Oh, you're married now! So, are you going to have kids?" Thankfully, no one who has asked has been offended when I tell them we don't want children.

                    Also, I don't know how it works in every company, but where I used to work, mothers AND FATHERS were entitled to up to 12 weeks of "bonding leave" when they had a child. This was under federal family medical leave, and as such, it was UNpaid time off. If the parent(s) wanted paid time, they would have to use their own vacation time that they earned for being an employee of the company. And of course, that meant they couldn't take vacation (or at least, not as much of it) later on in the year. Most employees only get 2 weeks of vacation a year, so anyone who has a baby would normally take that full 2 weeks for when the baby is born, and take another 4-6 weeks after that unpaid. And then have no paid leave for the rest of the year. So it was far from a free ride for 6 or 8 weeks for new mothers or fathers.

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                    • #11
                      Congratulations on your very recent wedding!

                      In Ontario, each new parent (both the father and mother) is entitled to one full year of unpaid leave. Their companies need only hold their positions for when they return. They are, however, entitled to collect unemployment benefits for that 12 month period. Unemployment varies, but it works out to about 70% of what a parent would make if they were still working. Usually a year is about all one can afford to take off.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RecoveringKinkoid View Post
                        (snip)

                        Nobody seems to mind if you take sick time, or vacation time, but the minute you take any sort of leave to care for a child...in my case, it was vacation time or a personal day, usually....everyone loses their shit because they want to act like we aren't entitled to it.

                        Most of the time, I actually came back at night to finish a job so I'd make my deadline. I'd save up leave and vacation time in case I neede it for my child. I asked for absolutely no favors.

                        (snip)

                        NOTE TO PEOPLE GETTING BADGERED ABOUT THEIR CHOICE TO REMAIN CHILDLESS: I feel your pain. You get it even when it's not your choice. Also, it doesn't end once you have a kid, either. I'm pushing 50 and morons STILL ask me when I'm having another one, if you can believe that. Stupid people do dearly love to ask some stupid questions.
                        This brings up another issue I have with this whole "Childless by Choice" movement (or ChildFree movement, whatever you want to call it). Many of them (well, maybe "many" is an exaggeration) want to belittle parents for taking leaves to take care of a kid, for getting tax breaks, for leaving work early to take a kid to the doctor, etc. I don't have kids, but I would never berate a parent for any of this. Parents have different needs than people without kids. Also, in case anyone's going to say, "Well, they should have known ahead of time and planned ahead," I would like someone to show me one incident where a young child approached his parent and said, "Okay, Mom, I'm going to come down with the flu at 9am next Tuesday; be ready." Also, if anyone thinks that time off from work to take care of a sick kid is actually "time off," that person needs a wake up call.

                        I know I probably sound like I'm just ruthlessly tearing into people in my own camp, but I just think a lot of these attitudes are unnecessary. Once again, my aunt Barb and uncle Lonnie have never had kids together, and my cousins Donna, Steve H, and Steve C have never had any kids with their spouses. They have never seen a reason to set themselves apart from the rest of the population because of their decisions. They just made their choices and then went quietly about their businesses.

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                        • #13
                          I personally don't give two shits about maternity or paternity leave. It's just something that everyone has to work around, just like the parents have to work around the childfree people taking holidays at odd times of the year.

                          What bugs me is when parents are automatically given priority; such as where I work, if anyone wants holiday time during the summer, parents get priority when it should be first come, first served. Before everyone starts jumping down my throat screaming, "But they have kids, so they should be allowed to take time off during the school holidays!" I get that. However, there are the 16 year olds who still live with their parents who take holidays during that time there, who end up being penalised cuz of that rule.

                          Also, not all parents, but some are very selfish when it comes to taking time off. Sometimes it's just not possible to give a person time off at short notice; I know you want to go to Little Suzie's school play or Little Johnny's football match, but you shouldn't just expect to get it with only a few days notice. And honestly, I have worked with people like that who expect everyone to jump to accomadate their various kiddie needs, but wouldn't even think of repaying the favour should a childfree person get a last minute concert ticket or something.
                          "Oh wow, I can't believe how stupid I used to be and you still are."

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                          • #14
                            I'm childfree, and so far people being on parental leave at work had not affected me directly.

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                            • #15
                              I also don't like being called "childless"; the term seems to signify that I'm somehow missing out. "Childfree" is much better. ^^
                              "Oh wow, I can't believe how stupid I used to be and you still are."

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