Childfree, Childless, etc.

[violetyoshi]

Just like it's okay to call black people niggers, since some of them fit the stereotypes. Same for calling Jewish people kykes, Hispanics spics, Italians guidos, Autistics retards, etc, etc, etc.

It's a slur to call any of those groups any of those names, even if some members of those groups fit the stereotypes.

By your logic, it's perfectly acceptable to paint a group (parents) with a slur (breeder) on the grounds that some members of that group exhibit behaviors that others in other groups find reprehensible. So, with your logic, please tell me why any of the other slurs I mentioned above are unacceptable, but breeder is fine?

No, I don't have kids. Never will. But that doesn't change the fact that the behavior you are advocating is wrong. I'm hoping that by having used those words above, I'll help to drive home the point of what you are doing.

Most people don't find the term retard to be a slur either, just saying.

[Pedersen]

Wow... Just... wow... Can you possibly ignore the point of the question any more thoroughly? I show exactly why what you are doing is wrong, I show how wrong it is, I ask for you to justify using a slur against another group, and you entire reply is "Well, one of those examples isn't considered a slur by most people" ???

Really? Is that all you can say? I expected something that at least pretended to have some mild amount of substance.

What a waste.

ETA: You really posted this remark? And that was after posting your reply above (let's see, above was at 3:13pm my time, the quoted below was at 3:15pm my time, so yeah, posted above first, and then posted this)?

I believe people who use retard in a derogatory way deserve to die. You don't like that people have differences, then move to the desert and live by yourself as a hermit.

You should be proud of yourself because of what I am about to say: Words fail me.

I have no way of expressing the level of failure involved here. I'm trying, and the words are gone. Congratulations. You have rendered me unable to communicate my thoughts.

[Ree]

I think called parents breeders is nice, considered the other attributes they have shown towards those who are childfree such as:

Refusing to acknowledge or validate them, because they don't have a child and must know nothing.

A tribal sense towards other parents, and acting as if non parents aren't a part of the tribe. Extremely immature, like a high school clique.

Behaving in ways that they would discipline their own child for behaving. Such as throwing tantrums when they don't get their way, as in "I have chilllllddrreeen!" when trying to get time off of work.

Also, behaving like small children themselves, and refusing to understand that being a parent means behaving like an adult. That most people aren't going to respond well to being talked down to like a child, or talking to someone who reacts to them like a frightened child when confronted. Such as in, looking at someone with big eyes as if they're a 3 year old about to break into tears. It's not appropriate as an adult, to use the manipulative tactics of a child to get what you want. Especially, if you don't tolerate the same behavior in your own child, because then you are a hypocrite.

Suggesting, they're giving in to their primal urges to breed, is the least of what's wrong with how parents behave. I am trying to be more tolerant of parents, and understanding.

It's funny parents will call those who are childfree selfish, or jerks. Yet parents display such traits much more frequently than people who are childfree. If anything, people who are childfree are frequently told that they must make way for parents and their children, and if they complain in the least that they're not understanding how hard it is to be a parent, and that they have no right to say anything.

Perhaps I don't want to be a parent, because I'd find myself associating, with the current generation of cliqueish parents. High school was bad enough, I don't want to have to return there, with the juvenile regressive behavior that these parents exhibit.

I haven't even started, on how people who are on the Autism spectrum are derided over behaviors they may not be able to control, while parents are given free reign to throw "meltdowns" and behave like children as well as "living in their own world".

Pardon me, but I have never read such a complete and utter pile of bullshit in my life.
I'm sorry if that is offensive, but your whole post offends me.

I am a parent, and I have NEVER behaved in the stereotypical manner that you have ascribed to me, and that you would suggest as much totally disgusts me.

Not only that, but you have once again managed to toss in the "I'm oh so special" autism angle that you seem to feel is relevant to every argument you make on this site.

We get it. You're autistic. If you would kindly tell us where to send your medal, then we will have one minted and sent to you post haste.
That way, you can pull it out and shine it up so the world can see it right away and not have to wait for you to toss it out there whenever you need to make a point in a debate.

Again, if that is offensive or over the line, I apologize, but you have done nothing but trash those of us who have chosen to have children as if we are public enemy #1, and I am offended at being lumped into your stereotype.

[violetyoshi]

Hey everyone, you want me to pretend I'm normal? Would everyone be happy if I ignored what is a major component of myself and my life? You can say, I'm proud to be a parent, be Black, but if you suggest your not ashamed of being on the Autism spectrum, you'll be shamed into your place here.

Asking me to seperate my worldview from my position as having Asperger's Syndrome, is no different than suggesting someone should act White to please others, when being Black is a part of who they are, their culture, and their worldview.

Please, anyone want to teach me on how to pretend I'm Neurotypical. Seems that's what I'll have to do to be taken seriously here. Hide who I am.

[the_std]

You can say, I'm proud to be a parent, be Black, but if you suggest your not ashamed of being on the Autism spectrum, you'll be shamed into your place here.

Asking me to seperate my worldview from my position as having Asperger's Syndrome, is no different than suggesting someone should act White to please others, when being Black is a part of who they are, their culture, and their worldview.

... You have the balls to get all offended at that comment, when you just offended how many people with your stereotypes about parents? Really?

Ree merely pointed out that, in nearly every single thread on this board, no matter what the content, you always bring up the Asperger's. Yes, it gives you a different view on life, that's great, that's fine. But you harp on it constantly, as if it makes you special, as if it is, like Ree said, a medal.

There are many different people on this board. Gays, blacks, wiccans, along with a whole range of mental and physical disorders... That doesn't even begin to cover it. We are all different, and the ways we are different define how we see things. And yet no one else constantly brings it up and waves it around in the air, the way you do. You just want to turn everything into a thread about you, you, you. And you know what? I'm giving into your me-ism right now by replying to it.

So either respond about your offensive stereotype or suck it up.

[Ree]

Hey everyone, you want me to pretend I'm normal? Would everyone be happy if I ignored what is a major component of myself and my life? You can say, I'm proud to be a parent, be Black, but if you suggest your not ashamed of being on the Autism spectrum, you'll be shamed into your place here.

No. We want you to stop using your autism as an argument in a debate, and bringing it up as a point when it's completely irrelevant to the topic.

[guywithashovel]

Violetyoshi,

Initially, I wasn't going to say anything in response to your post about the things parents allegedly do, mainly because Pederson had already said everything I would have said, and I didn't think you needed to read it all twice. However, at this point, I would like to point out the fact that your post in many ways embodied the sentiment that I was thinking about when I first started this thread. And that sentiment is that the world should be parents vs childfree people. I started this thread because, for a while, it has appeared to me that a significant portion of the people who are active in the childfree communities have this attitude that they are superior to or smarter than people who have children. They may not say those things in that many words, but their words and actions communicate those messages. It seems that you have a very disparaging few of parents. In fact, judging from your other posts on this forum, you seem to have a very low opinion of pretty much everyone else in the world. It seems to me that you think that no one else could possibly understand the world as you do.

And calling parents "breeders" is pretty rude. Yes, they are "breeding" in the basic sense of the word, but the word "breeder" has negative connotations, and it's often said in a disparaging manner. Seeing as you expect everyone else to walk on eggshells around your Asperger's Syndrome, I don't think it's asking too much for you to be kind to other people's choices to have children.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

I may be biased when it comes to time off for parents, but I'm all for it... up to a point. When you are responsible for the well being of another person, it only follows that you need to be around when they are ill. Sometimes otherwise planned-in-advance events happen suddenly. Sister's wedding, sudden divorce, turns-out-you-have-the-credits-after-all graduations. Not to mention a death in the family or house fire.

People get time off for all sorts of things surprise or not. So when the shit inevitably happens to a child of a coworker, at least think of it as if the shit had happened to the coworker themselves 'cause it's the same idea in the end. Yeah, the system *could* be abused but that's only to be expected and we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it's the abuser and not the abused that is to blame (100%).

By saying that people shouldn't have kids unless they have the luxury of being stay-at-home, part-time or shell out for a 24 hour nanny, your basically saying "only the privileged should reproduce". Which is tantamount to saying "Well, you don't have enough money to make things convenient for the world around you so you're not allowed to have this basic human right."

By all means, if some dick skips work at an hour's notice to 'see little Timmys t-ball game'. Hate him and do something or do nothing and forget it. If someone has to cash in all their vacation time and then some because their son is puking 3 times a day, losing weight at a rapid pace (starving) and too weak to stay awake for more than 4 hours a day... this still persisting since almost a month ago, cut them some slack and soldier on. Yeah, those are the extremes but giving up on stopping/allowing one for the sake of the other clearly isn't the solution.

Half the sentiments here seem to boil down to (including the OP main point) that 'insert group' seems to think that they are 'better/smarter/etc.' than everyone else because 'stupid reason'. Which applies to every possible group of people for a few important reasons:
-People like to be better than each other
-Al systems/rules are exploitable
-The Law of Large Numbers

Oh, and Violetyoshi, please refrain from throwing the Asperger's card into everything you comment on. As someone who is desperately trying to resist pulling my own free ticket for attention, your lack of control is disgustingly annoying.

P.S. [sarcasm]free cookies to anyone who can guess my condition![/sarcasm]

[Nyoibo]

Hey everyone, you want me to pretend I'm normal? Would everyone be happy if I ignored what is a major component of myself and my life?

Hands up everyone on this board with a mental/physical disability/disorder/problem that makes life harder.

I may be biased when it comes to time off for parents, but I'm all for it... up to a point. When you are responsible for the well being of another person, it only follows that you need to be around when they are ill. Sometimes otherwise planned-in-advance events happen suddenly. Sister's wedding, sudden divorce, turns-out-you-have-the-credits-after-all graduations. Not to mention a death in the family or house fire.

I'm all for parents having time off to look after a child, especially just after the child is born, it's an important bonding time, but I also think it needs to be reciprocal, other people without kids should still have access to the same amount of time off. I would have loved to have time off to get my dog, instead I had to wait until I had holidays so that I could have time with my puppy and I know people say it's not the same, but I'm still bonding with a living thing, that takes time.

[violetyoshi]

No. We want you to stop using your autism as an argument in a debate, and bringing it up as a point when it's completely irrelevant to the topic.

It seems to be irrelevant to every topic. So I understand, I simply won't bring it up anymore.

[the_std]

So how about your offensive stereotype of parents there, violetyoshi? Ever going to acknowledge your hypocrisy there?

[JuniorMintz]

Most people don't find the term retard to be a slur either, just saying.

Backtracking the conversation a bit, remember that at some point in time, most people didn't have a problem with the words nigger, kike, gook, chink, etc etc, didn't find it to be a slur, either.

Just saying.

Also, since you appear to have *no* consideration to those of us with "differences" that offend you, I would suggest looking into the cost of living in that desert you were talking about earlier. Kids like sandboxes but deserts, not so much.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I'm all for parents having time off to look after a child, especially just after the child is born, it's an important bonding time, but I also think it needs to be reciprocal, other people without kids should still have access to the same amount of time off. I would have loved to have time off to get my dog, instead I had to wait until I had holidays so that I could have time with my puppy and I know people say it's not the same, but I'm still bonding with a living thing, that takes time.

Exactly that. I also am not saying that I resent maternity leave, or genuine emergancies; just parents who take the piss and skive off for minor issues but use the excuse "It's the kidddddieesss!" as if that excuses everything. -.-

Having a child that's seriously ill, badly injured, needing psychological care (my dad had to take quite a few days off in order to transport me to see the various psychiatrists etc that featured in my troubled teenage years), or is a baby and therefore needs priority; no-one is saying that parents have no right to time off for those things. In fact, it's expected and many collegues would be genuinely concerned about said parents' kids.

However, skiving off so that you can go out and saying it's cuz your kids are sick is BAD, just as it would be for a childfree person to phone in sick and go out. Magically inserting a "the kids are sick" instead of "I'm sick" does not make it alright, like some people seem to delude themselves with. Same goes for holidays. If you leave it til the last minute to try and bag some summer holiday time off, then don't get it; tough shit. Don't whine and cry about it, or try to force someone who got the time off to swap; you should have booked it earlier if it was that important to you.

Finally, the SC who seemed to think that just cuz I didn't have children, I didn't deserve to have time off over Christmas, deserves a mention. I admittedly used a cheap line to embarrass her after her thoughtless comment (I said I was infertile), but the comment itself was out of order. Just as some childfree people may consider themselves superior cuz they don't have kids, it works the other way, too. Some parents think they're superior and oh so clever for doing something that all creatures have been doing for millenia.

And for the record, I would never call a parent a "breeder". Did all these people who use that term spring to life from budding, or immaculate conception? Cuz otherwise, they're calling their parents breeders too. -.- Duh.

[DesignFox]

You know, it all comes down to respect. Just because I choose not to have kids doesn't make me any better or worse than the person who chooses TO have kids.

All the people who choose NOT to have kids should remember that A) they wouldn't be here if THEIR parents chose not to have kids and B) the rest of the species wouldn't continue if everyone else chose not to have kids.

Kids are a necessary part of our world. Anyone who can't deal with that needs to seriously get over themselves.

Life isn't fair. Some people will always be assholes. Some of those assholes will use their kids as an excuse to be assholes. If they didn't have kids, you can bet they'd find some other excuse to be an asshole.

So yea, as much as some people hate being questioned about their decision not to have kids...those people need also to respect the rest of the world who have chosen TO have kids. You know, the species as a whole kind of relies on people reproducing.

And violetyoshi, the term breeder is extremely offensive. That word implies that the person is indiscriminately reproducing like an animal.

Most people don't care to be described in such a manner. Especially since MOST people take the idea of having children and building a family very seriously and do their very best to raise good, upstanding members of society.

[guywithashovel]

It seems to be irrelevant to every topic. So I understand, I simply won't bring it up anymore.

Thing is, you seem to expect everyone to walk on pins and needles around you because of your autism/Asperger's Syndrome, yet you don't seem to want to extent any courtesy to anyone else for issues they might have or for choice they've made in their lives. You get up in arms if someone isn't catering to your condition the way you think they should, yet you have no objection to calling parents "breeders," and all because some parents are rude. I've been treated rudely by those of the female sex, but that doesn't give me an excuse to be mean to women and lump them all together. I've also encountered not-so-nice bus drivers, but that doesn't give me free reign to be unkind to all bus drives and stereotype them. As others have pointed out, respect is nice, and it should be given and expected. But it's also a two-way street.

I am not without my personal "issues," either. Here are some of the things I live with.

1. I have social anxiety.

2. I possibly have Asperger's.

3. I am missing my right testicle due to an infection I had "down there" when I was fifteen years old.