Childfree, Childless, etc.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

You should be proud of yourself because of what I am about to say: Words fail me.

I have no way of expressing the level of failure involved here. I'm trying, and the words are gone. Congratulations. You have rendered me unable to communicate my thoughts.

Yeah.

I had something in my head ready to go, and I've just totally changed my mind by that point in the thread. My thought processes just flatlined into a test tone and a slide of a color bar.

So how about your offensive stereotype of parents there, violetyoshi? Ever going to acknowledge your hypocrisy there?

You like to bet? I'm going with "no", just based on past experience here. Any suckers ...I mean...takers?

[violetyoshi]

People can have different perspectives on things given the topic. Because a person has a different opinion on one topic, that differs from an opinion they had on a completely different topic doesn't make them a hypocrite.

I'm sure if people watched everything you posted, as it seems some people on here are doing regarding me, you'd be found to be a hypocrite too.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

The first statment was (to paraphrase) that "people who use the word retard in a derogatory way need to die" and the second one was "some people don't consider the word retard a slur and so it's not that offensive"

(Personally, I've never seen the word "retard" used in anything BUT a derogatory way, but hey, I am sure you have far more life experience than I do, so whatever. Maybe I dont' get out as much as you do. )

Not sure how fine we can split hairs on those two statments. They aren't different opinions on two different topics. They are different opinions on THE EXACT SAME TOPIC. They are even the same in their complete irrelevance to the topic at hand.

I get it, honey. Everyone is bound by the same rules of common courtesy, including not using offensive slurs on each other. Except you. You're exempt. When you do it, there's nothing wrong with it, because you are you.

I'm assuming you want to argue that it's because you can't be expected to know any better.

No hypocrisy there at all., right? But I think that's part ot the game.

I see what's going on here. It makes you feel important to derail ever single thread, even when the attention is negative. It's still attention, and that's all that really matters. Do I get it the cookie?

[Boozy]

The first statment was (to paraphrase) that "people who use the word retard in a derogatory way need to die" and the second one was "some people don't consider the word retard a slur and so it's not that offensive"

Those statements have been so heavily paraphrased as to be incorrect. You have also taken them out of context.

Statement A reveals violetyoshi's opinion about those who use the word retard in a derogatory way (the "deserve to die" bit was possibly tongue-in-cheek; read the original thread to see the context of that statement).

Statement B simply states a fact: That SOME people don't consider the word "retard" a slur. Violetyoshi does not indicate that she is one of those people. As far as the last bit of the quote you attribute to her ("so it's not that offensive") -- you appear to be making that up entirely. The original statement, only one page back, is:

Most people don't find the term retard to be a slur either, just saying.

I'm not taking a stance either way on this issue, but fairness and honesty in debate are important. If you want to quote another member, please take the time to search and quote their exact words. Links to the threads in question are also helpful, since context is very important sometimes.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Fair enough, Boozy.

I did read the context of the original posts, and the "so it's not that offensive" is merely how the post in it's context came across to me. I wasn't trying to put words in her mouth, I was trying to illustrate how I interpreted it.

Unless I am misunderstanding, (and admittedly the "logic" ...such as it is...here is pretty confusing) I am to understand that calling people "breeders" is not offensive because some people don't consider the word "retard" offensive. However that works out.

I'm trying to grasp the point here, and the only thing I can come up with is the idea that since the word retard is not offensive, then neither is the word breeder.

Or something.

I dunno, man. Brain go boom.

[Boozy]

I am to understand that calling people "breeders" is not offensive because some people don't consider the word "retard" offensive. However that works out.

I don't understand where that statement fits into her overall argument either. Hopefully VY will clarify that for us when she has some time.

[Nyoibo]

(Personally, I've never seen the word "retard" used in anything BUT a derogatory way,

I have, but I'm guessing not many people read very old psychology papers and such.

I'm not taking a stance either way on this issue, but fairness and honesty in debate are important. If you want to quote another member, please take the time to search and quote their exact words. Links to the threads in question are also helpful, since context is very important sometimes.

This is the internet, fairness and context have no place here.

Sorry, my cynicism showing through.

[Pedersen]

Statement A reveals violetyoshi's opinion about those who use the word retard in a derogatory way (the "deserve to die" bit was possibly tongue-in-cheek; read the original thread to see the context of that statement).

It might have been tongue in cheek, but she provided no indication that it was said in that fashion. Furthermore, she made the statement a whopping two minutes after making this statement:

Most people don't find the term retard to be a slur either, just saying.

Unless she has the memory of a goldfish (which, based on her other posts, I do not believe she does), the above statement would have been very much on her mind when she made the statement that people who use retard in a derogatory fashion deserve to die (and, were I significantly more thin-skinned, I could interpret that as a death threat, since, based on still other posts of hers that I have read, she could easily have inferred that I was calling her a retard, since she falls on the Autistic scale).

So, even though it was quoted from a different thread, it was still very relevant to the point being made. Also:

Statement B simply states a fact: That SOME people don't consider the word "retard" a slur. Violetyoshi does not indicate that she is one of those people.

You changed her quote yourself: She said that most people don't feel that way. You chose the word some.

Furthermore, in common English usage, when someone is making a statement like "Most people feel this way about X", and don't provide any statistic to back it up, what they are really stating is "I feel this way about X, and so do a fair chunk of the people I interact with daily."

It is extremely likely that she falls into the category of not feeling that retard is a slur, even though she does not specifically indicate it.

As far as the last bit of the quote you attribute to her ("so it's not that offensive") -- you appear to be making that up entirely.

Made up entirely, yes. But, based on previous trends and displayed attitudes, not an unreasonable belief that she feels that way. In fact, even without the words actually being on screen, I know of at least two people (myself and RK) who read that as being what she was at least strongly implying. I'd be surprised if rather more did not feel the same.

I'm not taking a stance either way on this issue, but fairness and honesty in debate are important.

I happen to agree with this. Which is why I'm waiting patiently for violetyoshi to actually start debating, as opposed to deflecting and/or ignoring pointed questions.

Her statements in this thread alone have shown a great deal of hypocrisy and an unwillingness to answer pointed questions (a pattern I've seen from her in other threads as well).

Instead, she either flat out ignores the questions, and continues to rant about what she feels like ranting about, or just departs the thread entirely.

violetyoshi: You have asserted that calling parents "breeders" is actually a nice thing to call them:

I think called parents breeders is nice, considered the other attributes they have shown towards those who are childfree such as:

I gave a direct response showing why this is offensive behavior on your part. I (and others) have asked you why being so offensive is fine for you, but not for everybody else.

We're waiting for your answer.

[Boozy]

It is extremely likely that she falls into the category of not feeling that retard is a slur, even though she does not specifically indicate it.

I'm afraid not.

If we're going to be comparing posts in other threads, we should compare them all. One cannot ignore:

http://www.fratching.com/showpost.ph...5&postcount=60

and

http://www.fratching.com/showthread....9778#post29778

In light of her views expressed elsewhere, I have to assume that VioletYoshi did not mean to say that she finds the word 'retard' inoffensive.

I have no idea what point she was trying to make. That's up to VY whether or not she feels like clarifying. But given the impassioned treatise she wrote on the subject (the first link), I have to assume that this particular one-liner is just being misinterpreted.

[Pedersen]

If we're going to be comparing posts in other threads, we should compare them all. One cannot ignore:

I stand corrected. And that just makes her post all the more confusing.

I have no idea what point she was trying to make. That's up to VY whether or not she feels like clarifying. But given the impassioned treatise she wrote on the subject (the first link), I have to assume that this particular one-liner is just being misinterpreted.

Given her impassioned diatribes on this topic, I have to think she was trying to deflect the question into yet another "Nobody understands my pain" thread. I'm glad that this tactic seems to have backfired.

Maybe she'll consider answering the original question. One thing's for sure, though, I expect Satan to be looking into ice skate sizing before we'll see a word of it.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Given her impassioned diatribes on this topic, I have to think she was trying to deflect the question into yet another "Nobody understands my pain" thread. I'm glad that this tactic seems to have backfired.

.

Oh, make no mistake. It did not backfire.

We're all sitting around here in a tizzy on yet another thread that has derailed into the "All About Me" territory. Talking about the same thing as always.

I'd say it went exactly as planned.

[Boozy]

That's enough, guys. You have pointed out some possible inconsistencies in her statements. Please give the courtesy of allowing her to respond to your counterpoints before jumping to conclusions.

In the meantime, if you are so concerned about derailing the thread into a topic you're not interested in, then stop doing so. Let's all refocus on the original post.

[violetyoshi]

That's enough, guys. You have pointed out some possible inconsistencies in her statements. Please give the courtesy of allowing her to respond to your counterpoints before jumping to conclusions.

In the meantime, if you are so concerned about derailing the thread into a topic you're not interested in, then stop doing so. Let's all refocus on the original post.

Seriously, I wonder why so many people seem to be obsessed with me. Oh also, it's not that I have a memory like a goldfish, it's that unlike it seems with some of you, I do other things with my life instead of visiting these boards.

[Pedersen]

Seriously, I wonder why so many people seem to be obsessed with me. Oh also, it's not that I have a memory like a goldfish, it's that unlike it seems with some of you, I do other things with my life instead of visiting these boards.

Congratulations, violetyoshi. By refusing to answer the question yet again (and being quite annoying about it in the process), you have earned a special status from me. To activate it, I have done the following: Clicked the "User CP" link in the menubar, down to the "Edit Ignore List" (bottom of the third box down, box titled "Settings & Options"), entered your name into the box, and clicked okay.

I'm done being trolled by you.

Goodbye.

[Fashion Lad!]

I really didn't read any of the posts, I did catch a few high lights though.

Being younger, I never wanted any kids. I never had any issues with those that seemingly want a million of them though. Then I met my girlfriend and as time goes on, I want a child with her. I don't have any issues with those that don't want children now.

I honestly think that common courtesy needs to be extended to those who do and do not have children and those that do. For most of us when we were exceptionally young, we wanted our mom or our dad. If we were sick, if it was a birthday, we wanted our parents there to watch us in the basketball game, karate tournament what have you. For the most part, our parents wanted to be there for us.

I'm not saying that those with children deserve special treatment, but an understanding that because we don't want to take a little bit extra at work because someone is going to have a baby, we're not only hurting the parent, we're hurting the innocent child.

Too many times, when people see a kid misbehaving we ask "well, where are the parents." Some of those parents don't get the time off because things at work are too inflexible.

Now, I'm not saying those with children should walk all over those without. Those without children have families too and that needs to be respected. It's a holiday and you have to work a night shift, spend time with your family in the morning. You make the choice to have a child sometime you need to just put a little extra effort into making things work.

We need people to want to have kids in order to survive as a society. Someone, I think Boozy, commented that the younger generation is going to be growing the food we eat, paving the roads that we drive and putting out the fires that burn our houses. (I don't remember it word-for-word, sorry.) Our social security system basically takes the money that the working are earning and giving it to those retired. That's how the system works. Right now, the baby boomers are retiring and they didn't have enough children to pay into the system that they're going to be drawing from.

I think people just need to work together and support each other. (I'm not saying financially, I don't want this to be used against me in another threat. )

Learn to see something from the view of someone else. "When I was a kid, I wanted my parents to see my soccer game (or whatever) what's 1 night?" On the flip-side, "they take all the crappy shifts so I can spend time with my child, I guess I don't need to absolutely work this time-frame, I can work something out.)

But, I just think people lack common courtesy.