"You're not a parent, so you know nothing about kids."

[Amethyst Hunter]

Triggered by a couple of responses in the "Differences" thread.

This myth rather annoys me. It gets lobbed at people (sometimes, but not always, CF (that's childfree, for those unaware) folks) without kids who make a statement or offer advice (which may or may not be warranted/welcome, depending on the situation and people in question) that is then taken badly by - you guessed it - parents. The accusation may be valid, but more often than not, IMO and experience, it's not.

Now, I'm CF myself. Yet, surprisingly, I DO know a thing or two about raising kids - that is, if you want them to stand a good chance of growing up to be relatively happy, healthy adults.

For example, I know that giving a kid whatever he wants as he's throwing a tantrum is only going to reinforce the bad behavior. I know that kids need proper nutrition (24/7 McDonald's, Rockstar cola and gummies don't cut it), proper exercise, proper sleep, and proper medical attention as necessary. I know that kids are NOT automatically carbon copies of their parents and are individuals themselves who are not going to fit neatly into a little labeled box, who will inevitably hold different likes, dislikes and opinions and beliefs than from what they may have been exposed to. I know that you NEVER, EVER, leave a child in a hot car on a hot day, and you keep an eye on the little buggers to make sure they don't go roaming where they shouldn't.

I know that fighting with teachers/doctors/relatives/others over how a kid's individual needs are addressed is a MAJOR PITA (and I ain't talking about the edible pita). I know that a child with special physical or mental needs is generally going to be twice as difficult to raise on account of all that will need to be done to ensure said kid can make it in the world on their own or with reasonable accommodations/support. I know that, despite all the best intentions and efforts in the world, there are just some kids that turn out Bad with a capital B through no fault of the parents, and some kids that don't but who still do the most inexplicable and confounding things on occasion. (I was one such kid; to this day I look back on some of the stunts I pulled as a kid and go "WTF did I do THAT for??") I know that even parents need 'time-out' time away from their kids in order to *continue* being good parents; they need this like a scuba diver needs oxygen. A nonstop diet of Spongebob and Lunchables can't be good for anybody, let alone adults.**

In short, I KNOW that parenting is a helluva hard job - which is PRECISELY why I don't want and am not going to do it! In regards to being CF, this is where I'd like to see such folks get a little more credit for common sense. (This also relates to the bingo "You don't have kids so you'll never know real love" or some lame variant thereof. Try telling that to the people who are satisfied raising animals, or the people in a non-childed happy marriage/partnership.) We may not know your exact circumstances, but we know enough to get a good grasp on the overall deal; our reactions can and usually will be tailored to fit the particular situation.

In the case of *unsolicited* advice, I DO understand why that wouldn't be welcome - part of being a parent is being forced to listen to a thousand and one variations of the (usually incorrect) opinion "UR DOIN IT WRONG" when it comes to childrearing, so I'm sure that gets a mite stale after the first, oh, two or three opinions (much like us CFers being told "oh you'll change your mind" aggravates the hell out of us!) - which is why I'm an advocate for just minding one's own business more often than not. (If one feels the need to address something, never underestimate the power of politeness, i.e., see an upset child in a store, a nice friendly "Excuse me, would you like some help?" or some such is more likely to accomplish a desired result. And whatever the response, let it go at that, whether the offer is accepted or declined.)

Can those without kids know *exactly* what it's like to be a parent? Yes and no. As I've oft-said in regards to other things, you don't need to be standing knee-deep in cowpies to know they stink. On the flip side, there can be a significant difference between watching a movie of someone's skydiving, and actually risking that same pizzafication of yourself.

But to claim, overall, that CF or as-yet-unchilded people know virtually nothing about kids/raising them, goes a little extreme, methinks. (It really does depend on the individuals in question.) Even if we have never experienced the full spectrum of that scenario, it's not hard to grasp the concept that certain things are important to parents and to kids, and to react accordingly saves everybody a lot of grief in the long run.

(And to all you parents out there who have done or are trying your best to raise relatively well-adjusted kids into adults, THANK YOU, and I mean that from the bottom of my caffeinated heart.***)




** = I have no problem with Spongebob myself. Cartoons rule.

*** = I require more Mountain Dew now. Sweet, sweet sugarfied poison, how I adore thee.

[joe hx]

It's often said jokedly (is that a word?) that the only people who know how to raise kids are those who don't have them.

I have no kids. I was 8 when my little brother was born, 10 when my little sister was born. I saw them raised, and formulated my own opinion on child rearing based on that experience.

I've asked the few friends I have that have kids if it's what they expected, and for the most part, their answer is no.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I have no kids; however, I babysat as a teen and helped my mum out when she was working as a childminder, so I know about kids, pretty much. I have also been a child, and so I know how I reacted as a child to certain things, and what my parents did to bring me up.

Honestly, you'd have to live in a bubble to not know anything about kids, even if you are childfree. I certainly do know that if you're just standing there yapping on a mobile while your kids run all over the store grabbing stuff, that you should be parenting them and telling them to behave... that's not rocket science, that's common sense.

[MaggieTheCat]

A very good friend of mine, who was an English teacher of mine my senior year of high school, is childfree. She's old enough to be my mother and we have often (privately) referred to each other as adoptive mother/daughter. She's been there for me countless times when my parents, specifically my mom, have been idiots about being parents. I have often taken her advice over my mother's, which infuriates my mother because she is convinced my friend could not possibly know better than her regarding children because my friend never had children.

I am childfree, but I can tell bad parenting when I see it, and my mom is far from a great parent. She treats me like a 3 year old still today, when I'm 25 (every time I come home, she feels the need to remind me to brush my teeth, comb my hair, take a shower, wash my hair, etc -- it's insulting and she knows it because I've told her so, but she does it anyway.) She has tried to control and manipulate me my entire life. She hates that I have different views than her about things like abortion, gay relationships/marriage, and religion. She thinks that whatever her opinion on something is makes it automatically right, and anything else is wrong or evil. She has physically attacked me (pulled my hair and wrapped her hand around my neck like she was going to strangle me), because I was seeing someone she didn't approve of. She also nearly damaged my laptop (that I bought with my own money) because she didn't like that I wasn't spending as much time with her and that I was "changing" in a way she didn't like, and she blamed my laptop because I was spending more time browsing the internet and talking with friends online. Keep in mind, ALL of this happened after I was 20 years old so I wasn't a child any more.

So yeah. People without kids can be good parents, and people with kids can be morons.

[fireheart17]

I did work experience with a childcare centre from year 6-7 and again in Year 10. Spending several weeks with the kids really opens up your eyes to how they act. (the 6/7 work experience was only for an hour a week)

Now, at work, I come across good parenting, bad parenting and just downright sucky. Three examples.

Good: parent explaining to child why they can't do this or that, or why something's different (i.e. why kid can't pet service dog), occasionally giving their kid something to eat if needed, but ensuring that it's healthy.
Bad: parent buying just junk food for the kids, constant swearing at them (for a child, shut up can seem like a swear word to them), letting their kids run amuck.
Downright sucky: encouraging kids to act badly.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

It's often said jokedly (is that a word?) that the only people who know how to raise kids are those who don't have them.

.

Oh, amen to that. I have often said, and NOT jokingly, that I knew everything about raising kids before I had one of my own. I was a freaking expert.

Then somehow, I seemed to completely lose all that wisdom when I had one of my own.

PWNed. Truly.

It's not the offered opionions that offends me. It's the arrogance of some people you run into. Everyone got opinions. But when some person who has no kids, doesn't work with kids, isn't around kids, but think they know everything there is to know about the subject and has the audacity to assume everything I'm doing is wrong...well...people like that are setting themselves up for some serious contempt. Babysitting the neighbor's kid a couple hours a month does NOT make anyone any sort of expert. However, a young, child free person working in a daycare or a teacher? That person has an opinion of some value.

But yeah, if you think you know what being a parent is like, you will not know until it happens to you. I do not believe there are any exceptions to this rule.

[BroomJockey]

My problem with non-parents offering advice to parents is simple:

They often forget kids are people too. There is absolutely no such thing as a "One size fits all" solution. Yet many childfree people spout their "wisdom" as if they know the parents, kids, and situation intimately, and that anyone who thinks of an alternate method is a fool. Actually, I've got the same issue with anyone offering any advice in that manner (theirs is obviously the bestest way imaginable, and you're a dummyhead for not doing it already).

If it's advice offered honestly as one of many possible options, I've no problems with anyone giving advice on any topic. But when you start telling people how they should do something, then you're a doofus.

[guywithashovel]

This may irk some people, but I personally find the term "childfree" to be a little silly. Even though I fall to the left on several issues, I still find much of the PC language that we've come up with to be quite pointless. But that's another topic for another thread, like this one.

http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=1480

As for the topic at hand, I think that unsolicited parenting advice can be rude even if it's coming from a parent. I have seen people who have kids give patronizing lectures to other parents on why they should do this or shouldn't do this, and it's usually over petty stuff. Even if you have kids of your own, I don't think that qualifies you to tell everyone else how to raise their kids.

On the same token, though, if you're going to talk to someone else about parenting, I don't think it's reasonable to get upset with them for offering an opinion on the subject even if they don't have their own children. It just seems to me that if you're going to include someone in a conversation about a certain topic, then you shouldn't get irked if they offer up some thoughts on the matter (as long as they don't get "too big for their britches" with it).

Also, it should be noted that this general phenomenon can be applied to many other areas, too. For some reason, our species tends to enjoy spouting "wisdom" on topics that it knows little to nothing about.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Just to clarify; childfree is not a PC term. It's a reaction to people, mainly parents, who use the term "childless" which seems to imply that a person either doesn't have kids cuz they are unable to breed, or are somehow missing out on something oh so special.

As for offering opinions, I won't hand mine out without an invitation. But if you ask my opinion, then don't whine and cry when you don't like what I have to say. Seeing as much in parenthood is common sense, such as don't give coffee to kids, it's hardly surprising that a childfree person with common sense would know a bit about kids.

[Akasa]

My sister and brother in law have asked me for child rearing advice because growing up I raised my sisters and they turned out very good.(Better than me honestly.)
I try to keep my mouth shut w/ parents, but if friends or family ask my advice I always tell them a few things. 1) Your child will have a mind of its own and its own personality. Also its probably smarter than you will realize., 2) Encourage your child to be its own person, 3) Explain things to your child. Let it know what you expect from it or why it is being punished.

I'm one of the Childfree and will always be Childfree, unless I somehow hook up w/ a guy w/ children. At any rate the children won't be mine.

(I used it when talking about children as I didn't want to type out him/her, etc. several times. Not because I am calling children its.)

[violetyoshi]

I did work experience with a childcare centre from year 6-7 and again in Year 10. Spending several weeks with the kids really opens up your eyes to how they act. (the 6/7 work experience was only for an hour a week)

Now, at work, I come across good parenting, bad parenting and just downright sucky. Three examples.

Good: parent explaining to child why they can't do this or that, or why something's different (i.e. why kid can't pet service dog), occasionally giving their kid something to eat if needed, but ensuring that it's healthy.
Bad: parent buying just junk food for the kids, constant swearing at them (for a child, shut up can seem like a swear word to them), letting their kids run amuck.
Downright sucky: encouraging kids to act badly.

I've spent time on a couple of kid targeted MMORPGs, and I feel I've learned more about understanding kids from experience on there. It's not really comparable to in person interaction, but I think I'm starting to understand that sometimes kids really don't know what they're doing is wrong. Like in Pixie Hollow a fairy was looking for passwords, and I told them not to ask for those, cause that's cheating and if they were to get reported they could be banned from the game. They really hadn't considered that, and thanked me for the help.

Perhaps the lesson is to remember as adults, not to ask too much of kids like expecting them to understand situations that might be socially complicated. I know that might seem kind of obvious, but it's easy to forget sometimes. I also have learned that imaginary play sometimes may seem disturbing to adults, but really is harmless and not to freak out over those things.

Like how the kids at Club Penguin will pretend to be adopted by another penguin, and they roleplay the birth and the igloo and everything. I thought it really was something quite adult to be happening in the game, but really it's their way of figuring out how their little brother or sister were born. I guess, I must be naive in thinking kids would believe that babies come from the stork or something.

[MystyGlyttyr]

I'm childfree because I don't know squat about kids and I KNOW I don't know squat about kids. I'm someone who pretty much wants them to sit down and be quiet and not make any noise and if that takes giving them all the chocolate and Dora they want, fine.

So I KNOW I'd be a horrible parent. However, I am apparently a pretty cool aunt.

I will occasionally ask my brother or sister about their kids in the form of: "Are they supposed to be doing that?" or "Why is she making that noise?" and that's about it. Heh.