HOAs

[LewisLegion]

Ok, so most of you knew this was coming. My rant on HOAs and why I hates them.

Anyone who’s read my thread in Off-Topic knows the situation I am in right now. And I do understand the reasons HOAs started and that there are good ones out there…but the bad ones outweigh the good ones.

HOA’s, in theory, are supposed to give neighbors power to do something about neighbors who neglect or trash their property or do something that will ultimately drive down the values of the homes around them. In REALITY, most HOAs are nothing but a bunch of petty control freaks who stringently pass down judgment over the stupidest things and can end up losing people their homes when they don’t kiss their feet and comply. AND people are supposed to pay for the privilege of living under these control freaks.

Some of the bad and the ugly of HOAs…actual fines handed down from research I’ve done on various sites. Such fines as:

They painted their door blue instead of red without permission. Fine.

They did not get permission to build a fence of cedar instead of pine. Fine.

The lawn was ¾” instead of ½”. Fine.

After a HOUSE FIRE, warnings and a fine levied because the house was in ‘disrepair’ for longer than ten days.

Fines for having a roof in disrepair THE DAY AFTER A HURRICANE.

Fined for building a shed not visible from the street AFTER permission for the shed was obtained.

Some HOA rules are as ridiculous as ‘Common areas, parks, and streets are not to be used for recreational purposes. Bikes will not be allowed to be ridden anywhere in the community.’

I mean, seriously?

I buy a house. It’s MINE. My property. My house. If I want to paint my door glory-be, I’m going to paint my door. If I want to plant rose bushes in my yard instead of lilac bushes, I’m plantin’ me some roses. If I want to build a fence, I’m building my kind of fence as tall as I want it and where I want it. If I choose to have a Toyota instead of a Honda (yes, one HOA fined a guy for having an older model truck…in good repair mind you, and well cared for… instead of the approved models of car in his driveway) I’m going to have a bleedin’ Toyota. If its snowed I’m DRIVING my car on the road and into my garage, not walking three blocks so that TIRE TRACKS don’t disturb the snow (woman got fined and sued after back surgery required her to drive home in the snow rather than walking a mile so that tire tracks didn’t ruin the ‘rustic’ appearance of the community).

I’m a grown woman. I make enough money to buy my own house, on my own I might add. I don’t need to ask ‘mommy and daddy’s’ permission to paint my own door, or plant flowers instead of shrubs, and I sure as hell ain’t getting up at five am on my day off to put my garbage cans on the curb so the trashmen can pick them up at 5:15 and I can get the cans back into the garage no later than 5:30. The neighborhood isn’t going to fall apart if the cans are out the night before and back in by nine.

[DrFaroohk]

I assume HOA is "Home Owner's Associate"? Maybe I don't understand how it works, but couldn't one just....not move into an area controlled by one of those?

Edit - I just read your post on CS - wow, you got screwed. Time to bring out the inner bitch and make everything as difficult as you can for those people!!

[Wingates_Hellsing]

I suppose there's the possibility that one might need something within reasonable distance of their current or new job or there might not be a suitable counterpart elsewhere. Still, it's just stupid at the very basic level. Just because I live in this place some non-governmental probably not-elected likely douche nozzle has the ability to fine me to death if they so choose?

Unless they owned the property before I bought it from them, they don't have the right to exclude me from buying it. Unless they serve as the real-estate agent in which case it's still incredibly immoral.

If at all possible I'm going to get a lawyer to take a gander at any housing contracts so I can steer clear of this shite when I get out into that big ugly world

There's just that money thing....

[MaggieTheCat]

DF, I know you don't visit the CS forums, which is where the backstory to this post is...Lewis recently bought a house and had asked, multiple times, if there was a HOA for the neighborhood, was told there was not, then found out after closing on the house that there IS a HOA.

Anyway, I think it's ridiculous. Some of that stuff people are getting fined for...makes me sick! My husband and I are going to start house hunting probably next year, and I will make sure that we are NOT in an area with a HOA. I want to know how these people can sleep at night, feeling justified in fining people for having a house fire or back surgery. Disgusting.

Edit: Oops, I see DF went back to CS and read the original post.

[violetyoshi]

There was an episode of X-Files called Arcadia about this.

[HYHYBT]

Part of the trouble is that the things have become so common, especially in newer developments (and by "newer" I mean the last two or three decades) that it can be all but impossible to find a house that's *not* in one.

[Rapscallion]

I'm not in the US, but as with everything I rather expect it's a matter of different HOA's being better than others. Some won't concern themselves about things that really don't matter, and others will obsess over all sorts of crap.

For some, it's a power trip. For others, it's serving the community.

Rapscallion

[smileyeagle1021]

l. Just because I live in this place some non-governmental probably not-elected likely douche nozzle has the ability to fine me to death if they so choose?
.

you would like Nevada... people actually have to want to be in an HOA for it to continue to exist... if no one is elected (yes, all HOA positions in Nevada are elected, with the exception of property managers who have no authority beyond what the elected board gives him/her) then the HOA ceases to exist. So if the HOA gets too extreme all the residents have to do is vote for non of the above for all positions in the HOA (Nevada state law also requires all elections of any nature have a non of the above option, something that I took advantage of during the 04 presidential elections) and when none of the above win, the state will dissolve the HOA... that is just one joyous provision of NRS 116 (the code governing HOAs).

I know I'm not going to be popular for this, but having seen how well Utah and Nevada regulate HOAs I'm going to go against the flow and say I think they do much more good than harm (granted, I'm adding that well regulated part). I'm all for property rights and if you want to paint your house, then by God paint your house, buy whatever car you want to park on your property, plant whatever trees you want, put up whatever fence you want... but, I don't support the 'right' to leave trash (like take it to the landfill trash) on your property or to allow weeds to grow wild or allow your property to go into an extreme state of disrepair. The first is a potential health hazard, the second is a potential fire hazard, and the third is a potential safety hazard (granted, I'm not going to be fining people for not repairing their homes the day after a hurricane), all of which are detrimental to both the homeowner (which all the more power to him) and the community as the whole (which is the crux of the matter... you're rights stop where they will negatively affect mine). And to be honest, when it comes to ensuring the wellbeing of the neighborhood (wellbeing, not necessarily the 'feel' or 'charm' of the neighborhood, I"m not arguing that HOAs don't need to be controlled and reigned in) I'd much rather have a group of neighbors doing it than the government... because the government can't even seem to keep their own property in order.

[XCashier]

There's a fine line (pun not intended) between property management and power tripping. If a neighbor parks a leaking junker car on the grass, yes, that's unsightly and a health hazard and should be fined. But levying fines for planting snapdragons instead of roses, or painting your windowsills Antique White instead of Seashell White is ridiculous.

Where do city and state laws stand on HOAs? If these codes cross the line into harrassment and excessive fines, can the police and courts get involved?

[LewisLegion]

Not really. Because you have to sign a contract with those crazy rules listed in it. So if they harrass you, all they have to do is wave their signed contract to the judge and the cops and that's that. One guy lost his house because he planted 'more than the prescribed amount of roses' on his property...if I remember right he had like half an acre and planted seven rose bushes instead of the allowed two. He was piled with fines, the HOA put a lien on his house and took him to court...and the judge ruled in the HOA's favor because it stated in the bylaws that only two bushes were allowed on any given property. Yeah, this guy lost his house over rose bushes because the HOA was a douche.

[Boozy]

Yeah, this guy lost his house over rose bushes because the HOA was a douche.

I think it's ridiculous that a HOA would take a man's house over five rose bushes.

But I also think it's ridiculous that a man would allow HOA fines to pile up to the extent where he loses his home -- instead of removing a few rose bushes.

In this case, there are almost certainly two sides of the story. And I'm thinking that the HOA and their "victim" probably deserved each other,

[LewisLegion]

They don't have to pile high. People are losing their homes over as little as a sixty dollars- a couple hundred dollars. Of course, in most cases they were given numerous opportunities to pay but in at least one case I can't now find *curse you google*, the woman only found out her home had been foreclosed and sold at auction when the new owners showed up and demanded that she leave.

[Boozy]

They don't have to pile high. People are losing their homes over as little as a sixty dollars- a couple hundred dollars.

That's even worse! Assuming that the HOA is giving the homeowner the required notifications (they have a fine, a lien has been taken, and they could lose their home if they don't pay up) then you'd have to be one hell of a stubborn son-of-a-bitch to actually lose your home rather than pay a meager fine. (Stories in which HOA's behave illegally and do not give notice are another matter).

Again, this is not to defend HOAs. But there are a lot of people out there who cannot see the forest through the trees, will cut off their noses to spite their faces -- you pick the metaphor.

I could see myself risking my home if my fight for justice would save lives. There are a few causes that might qualify. But to risk it all for the belief that "My property looks better with seven rose bushes instead of two"?. I believe that is the act of an insane person.

[Depot Denizen]

There was a Bullshit episode about Lawns. One segment was about HOAs and lawns. In some areas, you are required to have a certain type of grass. If you don't, you are fined. If the lawn looks brown, you are fined. If the lawn isn't the proper height, you are fined. If, heaven forbid, it dies during a water shortage, you are fined.

One guy went to prison because he wasn't able to get his dead lawn replaced, so the HOA took him to court and had him locked away for two days (after which, a benevolent person gathered a group of friends and fixed the lawn and the owner was released).

I personally despise HOA and will never, ever buy a home that is in a HOA neighborhood. I'll live out in the sticks, thank you very much. It's quieter and there aren't any busybody neighbors measuring your lawn with a ruler.

I'll grow old and be Robert Duvall from Secondhand Lions, sittin' on my porch with shotgun in hand..."You a salesman?" "Yes sir..." "Get off my lawn."

[telecom_goddess]

There was a Bullshit episode about Lawns. One segment was about HOAs and lawns. In some areas, you are required to have a certain type of grass. If you don't, you are fined. If the lawn looks brown, you are fined. If the lawn isn't the proper height, you are fined. If, heaven forbid, it dies during a water shortage, you are fined.

One guy went to prison because he wasn't able to get his dead lawn replaced, so the HOA took him to court and had him locked away for two days (after which, a benevolent person gathered a group of friends and fixed the lawn and the owner was released).

I personally despise HOA and will never, ever buy a home that is in a HOA neighborhood. I'll live out in the sticks, thank you very much. It's quieter and there aren't any busybody neighbors measuring your lawn with a ruler.

I'll grow old and be Robert Duvall from Secondhand Lions, sittin' on my porch with shotgun in hand..."You a salesman?" "Yes sir..." "Get off my lawn."

I saw that and it only instilled an even stronger hatred over HOA's. I mean really they are so picky about STUPID STUFF!