College Rants

[linguist]

I thought the point of college is people are supposed to be responsible for themselves and make their own decisions for the first time and therefore it is their decision whether or not to go to class.

the point of college is to expand your education and prepare you for the real world, where things like jobs actually expect you to be present and on time on a daily basis. it is of course your choice not to do so, but in life as in college there are consequences.

As a teacher for a college you provide a service someone has paid for. Isn't it his choice to utilize it how he pleases? It'd be like if you paid a mechanic to work on your car, but he said that since he didn't feel you appreciated your car enough he's going to purposely destroy it for you.

this is an apples and oranges comparison. the mechanic you pay after the fact for services rendered. the college you pay in advance not for a service, but for the privilege of attempting to improve your education with no guarantee that that's actually going to happen.

not being bothered to show up to class shows a disrespect for the class, for the professor, for the institution, and for your fellow students. at best you are depriving your fellow classmates of your own insights into the course material, and at worst you are taking a seat from another student who may have actually had a desire to enroll in and show up for class.

as for all the community college negativity, it makes me feel blessed to attend the one that i do. i live in a city with 7 universities in the immediate area. our local community college has higher enrollment than any of them save one. the professional programs the college offers are among the most sought after in the region, and in some cases are not even offered by any of the universities. and as for the professors, none of them i've ever had, or have ever known, have anything less than masters degrees.

[DrFaroohk]

this is an apples and oranges comparison. the mechanic you pay after the fact for services rendered. the college you pay in advance not for a service, but for the privilege of attempting to improve your education with no guarantee that that's actually going to happen.

Semantics. For college you pay for a service as well. You pay to have a room with which to have a class in, you pay for a professor to able to lecture you, you pay for the room to have electricity and a chalkboard and an internet connection and for the right to have a seat in said class. There's no guarantee you'll get the education, however, if someone passes all the tests and gets a good grade, they clearly got the education, regardless of where they were when they learned the material. If someone has completed the necessary work for a class and clearly learned the material being taught how can you in good conscience fail them?

not being bothered to show up to class shows a disrespect for the class, for the professor, for the institution, and for your fellow students. at best you are depriving your fellow classmates of your own insights into the course material, and at worst you are taking a seat from another student who may have actually had a desire to enroll in and show up for class.

If you refuse to show up for a class and your intent is to be rude and disrespectful, then yes, it is rude and disrespectful. If you refuse to show up for a class because you're just really really busy, well, then its just because you're busy. You can't just add on whatever intention you feel like. It's up to the person who is actually skipping the class, and unfortunately, until we develop psychic technology or master the art of the vulcan mind meld, we only make ourselves sound more idiotic by claiming to know otherwise.

Now, if you're not showing up for a class that requires classroom participation in a TEAM, then you're being rude, because your team is depending on you for their grade too.

[Greenday]

The grades are supposed to be the deciding factor. If he passes, he succeeded whether you say he did or not. If he fails, those are the consequences he faces.

To rephrase what I learned from Plato, knowledge is understanding. You don't understand anything if you just memorize dates, definitions, and terms.

[DrFaroohk]

Then why are we tested on such things?

[Greenday]

Then why are we tested on such things?

Touche. But a lot of classes require explanations of stuff so if you don't understand it, you won't be able to explain it.

[AdminAssistant]

Then why are we tested on such things?

Because that's the only way to manage a multiple choice test, and if you're giving a test to 500 or so Freshies in Intro To (Anything)....multiple choice is pretty much the only way to go.

And that sucks. And I hate it. I don't think they should have classes that big, ever. But it happens all the time at big universities. Some of the gen eds here have class enrollments of 1,000 students.

However, in our Intro to Theatre class we're taking a different tactic and giving a blue book exam. Hell of a lot more work for us TA's, but the students might actually, y'know, learn something. (Our enrollment is at 175, which makes that kind of test somewhat feasible.)

[Greenday]

175? Damn. Biggest class I've ever had was 140. Next two biggest classes were 70. Then 40, then all the way down to 11.

[AdminAssistant]

175? Damn. Biggest class I've ever had was 140. Next two biggest classes were 70. Then 40, then all the way down to 11.

Yeah, it's tough. But we break them into discussion sections for Fridays, and those are more manageable (max enrollment - 30. I have 8.) Worse for students in terms of their educations, but better in some ways because it's cheaper to cram as many students under one professor as possible. And that, in theory, makes tuition cheaper.

[Nyoibo]

As a teacher for a college you provide a service someone has paid for. Isn't it his choice to utilize it how he pleases? It'd be like if you paid a mechanic to work on your car, but he said that since he didn't feel you appreciated your car enough he's going to purposely destroy it for you.

A better analogy would be that you paid for the mechanic, didn't show up to your scheduald time and so he refuses to fix your car, say what you want about being late and not attending but it's disrespectful to the teacher, it's basically saying that what they have to say and teach is beneath you to learn and that you're better and know more than someone who's spent years studying the subject you're reading out of a book.

[smileyeagle1021]

Yes, college is expensive. However, the issue with community colleges is that the teachers there usually do not have the qualifications of, say, a tenured professor at a 4-year institution. You can teach community college with an Associate's Degree; I won't qualify for any position at a 4-year institution until I finish my Ph.D. Also, many 4-year degree programs are structured in a way that you start taking the introductory classes in your major your freshman year. Spending 2 years at a community college and then 2 more years at a university is going to make a few things more difficult. That is, if you can get a university to accept your credits, since fewer are doing that now. There are a lot of small state universities that are actually quite affordable, especially if you qualify for federal aid or scholarships. And what you get will be worth more than anything you pick up from a community college.

This is one thing that I like about the Utah State Higher Education System. All schools that receive state funding all transfer between themselves almost universally (there are a few courses that each school offers that are exclusive to that school, but those are the exceptions not the rule). When I take a class at SLCC not only will I be able to transfer it to any state university but in many cases I will be using the exact same text book, same syllabus, same tests, and sometimes even the same professor.

Well, that's right up there with parking permits and athletic fees - necessary evils. Broom's right, it's the publishers. And, in some cases, the teacher doesn't get to pick the book they're using.

I actually don't view the parking permit as a necessary evil... I actually like parking permits. I've kind of been forced into buying one this year because I don't have the time to take the bus, but I hate parking on campus and would much rather take the bus, if I'm not using the parking lot I don't want to have to pay to maintain it... seems fair. Now that I do use the parking lot I don't see anything wrong in paying to maintain it.
[/quote]

I don't know a single professor who does not include either participation or attendance into the grading rubric. I'm sure, however, there are those who don't. In that case...I don't know. I'd go to class anyway, but that's the kind of person I am.

I know one professor... but that's because it's not an actual "class". It's really an online course that has the option of going to a 'class' to receive assistance on the course work. I actually kind of like the idea... if you are able to do all the work on your own and self teach (it's a course on using Microsoft Office, so really the best way to learn it is to just do it anyway).

[TehShush]

1. I am sick of people thinking less of me because I'm going to a community college...

2. Then there's the 4.0 people...

3. Mandatory Attendance...

4. Professors getting angry over being late...

5. The copyright BS...

6. The costs of textbooks...

1. There are some areas that do that more than others, I believe. I've never gotten a negative response about the fact that I go to a community college, though it might just be because of the recession and people in my city were hit pretty bad, so they know money can't be wasted on classes I can take for cheap.

2. I was never the best student, mostly as I couldn't take multiple classes as well as other students. I was lucky if I got a B in a regular class, an A if it was one of those "You came to class? Wow, you're an awesome student!" kinda teachers giving the grade. So, when getting to college and only having two classes helped me focus, I got a final grade of 100 for each. With the exception of one class, I have had perfect or ner perfect grades each time... and it's made me one of those people who gets a bit bent out of shape when they get a B.

3. & 4. I purposefully find laidback teachers, ones who teach and don't get all prissy over stuff like attendance and tardiness. If people don't make a big deal over a tardy, it doesn't really interrupt much. Then again, I don't attend 100+ student lectures that require you to listen closely, so I am a bit biased. The classes at my CC are about the size of the ones at highschool, the largest I saw was for about 40 students. In fact, my Thursday class is so small it is pretty much laughable! 11 students, including myself. It's an intro to internet course, which is a necessary elective that no one really 'learns' from... so the teacher herself told everyone that no one needs to come if they don't feel like it; she is required to be there, and whoever wants to hang out and go over the homework (definitions) is free to come and do so. [Mind you, most teachers aren't so laidback, it's mostly because the hardest thing we have gone over so far is what "CC" and "BCC" mean on an email because it's rarely used and thus rarely known.]
In a 'large' class of 30-ish students, where the teacher is up close to the students and has visual tools (board, projector, video, etc), a door opening takes little notice. The teacher looks up long enough to see who it is, yet continues talking as if nothing happened (*le gasp*) because they are smart enough to not interrupt their own speech about people interrupting the class. Again, the class can hear the teacher over small rustles, so a late student is barely noted when they get to their seat and pull out their classwork.

5. Mmm, this is why I love Microsoft Office 7, the Word software does all that stuff for ya! In my old comp. class, we learned how to use all the new M. Office programs that were recently installed on the school computers. Click a button that gives you boxes to type information, it inputs it for you into the format you need as well as various other shortcuts. ^^; I sound like an ad for it, but oh well. I don't get so picky about citing stuff, my main issue is having a required number of sources. *eyeroll* Really? I can't just say something because I know it? I have to find that exact information somewhere in order to have a book/website/interview/etc source? (And I don't mean statistics kind of information, more along the lines of "the three axis powers were..." common knowledge stuff).

6. Yay for laidback teachers who teach instead of requiring a bunch of reading each night! Also, yay for websites like Chegg and Better World Books! I love getting overpriced books for $20, especially if it benefits others (such as the person who originally paid the full price, or how BWB focuses on world literacy).

I would suggest checking out ratemyprofessors.com if you haven't already, it's practically invaluable to a student who wants to find a decent teacher.

[AdminAssistant]

I would suggest checking out ratemyprofessors.com if you haven't already, it's practically invaluable to a student who wants to find a decent teacher.

It's also invaluable to students who get mad at a professor who doesn't *gasp* bend over backward to give them the grade they want. I haven't looked for myself, but there are a few in the past that would give me bad ratings because I wouldn't let them re-write a paper, I caught them at plagiarism, or because I took off the set amount of points for missing most of the discussion sections.

There is also currently a lot of debate about the effectiveness of student evaluations. Hopefully, those will go by the wayside, since they rarely give any useful information and are a way for vengeful students to get 'back' at the professor.

[Boozy]

There is also currently a lot of debate about the effectiveness of student evaluations. Hopefully, those will go by the wayside, since they rarely give any useful information and are a way for vengeful students to get 'back' at the professor.

If colleges and universities are finding that those student evaluations are not giving them accurate feedback, they need to be revamped. But not allowing students to give feedback on the education that they paid for is not fair. No one knows better than a student how well someone is teaching.

Evaluations that require thoughtful, written responses instead of "Rate your prof from 1-10" would probably give an accurate picture. A bitter asshole will expose themselves if asked to extrapolate.

[Fashion Lad!]

We have evaluations at my college. We answer roughly 15 questions about the professor, the text book and the school itself. (Not 15 per, but 15 total). Each question we have to explain why we gave the rating we did. Most students are going to be fair, I believe.


Some of my college rants:

The books! I hate that I pay sooo much for a book and the professor will say, "we're only going to use like 2 or 3 things out of it" (mind you, this only really happens when there are multiple books for the class. And it's usually a dinky $90 work book. EFF!)

The fact that they like to post a flier for EVERYTHING!

A lot of colleges hire instructors because they are or have worked in a particular field, not because they have teaching experience. That drives me up a wall.

I had someone from financial aid say "we have mandatory tuition increases" then I got into a fight with him because I said that was bullshit. I go to a private college and the community college is half the cost per credit. (I really did say that was bullshit.) Cost of tuition rises faster than inflation. And then the government goes, we'll help out more. And college are basically like, since we know you're getting more help from the government, you can afford this increase in tuition. Then I rip out my hair be cause I hate worthless circles.

[AdminAssistant]

Evaluations that require thoughtful, written responses instead of "Rate your prof from 1-10" would probably give an accurate picture. A bitter asshole will expose themselves if asked to extrapolate.

Something like that would be somewhat helpful, to a certain extent. However, I think they should be put to limited use when determining things like merit raises and tenure. Those decisions would ideally be based on in-class personal observation.