College Rants

[Greenday]

We have two forms we have to fill out at the end of a semester. Rating a teacher between 1-5 on how good they were at certain things. We also have a yes or no side to the sheet about certain stuff. Then we get another piece of paper where we have to write what we liked about the course, what we didn't like about the course, what improvements we think could be made (mine usually is something along the lines of "don't make the ONLY section for this class at 8am every semester"), and any other comments. I think the second sheet is pretty useful.

[DrFaroohk]

A better analogy would be that you paid for the mechanic, didn't show up to your scheduald time and so he refuses to fix your car, say what you want about being late and not attending but it's disrespectful to the teacher, it's basically saying that what they have to say and teach is beneath you to learn and that you're better and know more than someone who's spent years studying the subject you're reading out of a book.

That's just a horrible analogy. In each case, you are paying for a service. For the car, I'm paying a mechanic to fix my car. For the school, I'm paying a teacher to stand there and lecture. In both cases, my presence is not absolutely necessary for success. In both cases, the service has been paid for and it should be rendered in good faith regardless of whether I show up. I paid my mechanic, I got good grades, by what logic in hell does someone think they have the right to just make up their own rules and say "While you met all the requirements of this transaction (paying for the car or getting good grades in class) I don't feel like you meant it. FAIL."

I guess it depends on the class, though. I think a math class can be learned more easily on your own than, say, a class on English plays, which require classroom participation. I know that the math class may be "missing out" on my insights by me not being there, but last time I checked there's no contract that says I have to show up and assist the teacher in offering opinions. If I pay for the class, and I do the assigned work, I do it well and get passing grades, and I'm not cheating, I deserve the grade I get, not what some dumbass teacher feels like giving me because her husband left her.

[Rageaholic]

WOW! I didn't think this would get this many replies.

Okey-dokie, here we go. (From a life-long academic!)



Yes, college is expensive. However, the issue with community colleges is that the teachers there usually do not have the qualifications of, say, a tenured professor at a 4-year institution. You can teach community college with an Associate's Degree; I won't qualify for any position at a 4-year institution until I finish my Ph.D. Also, many 4-year degree programs are structured in a way that you start taking the introductory classes in your major your freshman year. Spending 2 years at a community college and then 2 more years at a university is going to make a few things more difficult. That is, if you can get a university to accept your credits, since fewer are doing that now. There are a lot of small state universities that are actually quite affordable, especially if you qualify for federal aid or scholarships. And what you get will be worth more than anything you pick up from a community college.

Okay, some good points. Since I have only had experience at a CC, I can't really say what a uni will be like, so I take your word for it. Perhaps the material will be more interesting them some of the courses I took so far.

For me, I just hate the snobbery that some people have toward those who don't go to big name universities. I've known some people who have looked down on me for not rushing away to a uni. They also brag about how many courses they're taking at once (I don't like to overwhelm myself with 15+ credit hours at a time). They've cracked many jokes about those "lesser academic", which gets on my nerves.

I'm one of those "4.0 People" and yes, I was pissed as all hell when I got my one and only B in undergrad. The way I saw it - college was a job, and I wanted to do the best I could. That, and I had to get good grades to keep my scholarship. (3.5 min. GPA) I have gotten one B and one A- since I started my doctoral program, but I don't sweat those as much.

College is a lot like a job, but there are many things different about it too (like instead of getting paid for working, you pay to work lol).

The thing is, not everybody can get straight As. Not everybody is capable of it. It takes special, gifted people to be straight A students. When parents, teachers, or society place that expectation to be 'the best', it only reinforces those thoughts that "I'm nobody if I'm not perfect". If I had that expecation placed on me by my parents, I would have gone crazy, Heath Ledger Joker crazy.

The way I always saw it was 3.5 or anything higher was something to be proud of, not something you had to get or you'd lose. One mistake didn't mean game over. Sure, it's always great to have that goal to get high grades, but like I said, it's not me. If people can do it, and do get grades (like you), than I'm happy for them, but I would hate to see someone beat down over not being able to live up to that (my two cents).[/QUOTE]

If you can learn it all from the books, then why would you go to college in the first place? (Again, I think this comes from teachers who aren't as prepared or trained to teach classes.)

To get good jobs. It's not like I can get my degree just by learning it from the books.

Again, going to school is your job. Would you show up late for your job? Also, coming in late shows a lack of respect for your teacher, IMO.

Two different things. In a job, you're getting paid to do a service. At college, you're paying for the service. Also, there could be other people depending on you being there for the job, but at college, you're the one paying, and no one else is depending on you being there. As long as you don't expect the professor to catch you up, I see no reason why they should feel so inconvienced at you coming in late.

Besides, it's not like some people have control over circumstances which make them late (liked being stopped by a train).

Academic misconduct (aka plagiarism and cheating) is a huge issue. The citation rules and academic misconduct guidelines are there to protect scholars (like myself) who spend hours and hours in libraries and looking for archival materials and going through the arduous process of getting published. MLA is actually, to me, the simplest of the citation styles...hell of a lot easier to use than Turabian (Chicago). Had to deal with that for my master's thesis. Bleh.



Well, that's right up there with parking permits and athletic fees - necessary evils. Broom's right, it's the publishers. And, in some cases, the teacher doesn't get to pick the book they're using.

I still think they take the plagiarism thing too far. Yes, I think someone who copy's someone elses work should get an automatic 0. On the other hand, some teachers act almost distrusting of students. THAT annoys me. Kind of like that drug crap they have in middle school.

And I wish they wouldn't rely so much on textbooks. The best teacher I ever had didn't even use a textbook. He made it so much easier to understand than the textbooks would have. (not saying all textbooks are bad, a lot of them are pretty good, but when all the teacher does is read out of the textbook instead of giving simple instructions on how to do things, actually learning what you are supposed to learn becomes hindered by trying to take notes out of the textbook).

[Savannah]

Then there's the 4.0 people. [...] Maybe I shouldn't direct my anger so much at them as their parents or cultural expectations. I mean, I have OCD too and know what it's like. The last thing anxious people need is unreasonably high expectations placed on them.

Not necessarily. I'm one of the "4.0 people". My parents don't pressure me in any way. I'm not anxious or OCD; I think that a lot of factors (parent's education level, personality, homeschooling, full-time student with no job, no test anxiety, etc) contribute to the fact that I don't find having a 4.0 terribly hard. I do find B's annoying, because I can usually attribute them to something I did or didn't do (stayed up late, didn't study, etc). I'm not mad at the teacher, but at myself for doing something I know I shouldn't have.

Sure, it's always great to have that goal to get high grades, but like I said, it's not me.

I'm glad that you know yourself, and don't worry if you get a lower grade. I agree that no one should be given a hard time for their grades if they are happy with them. I don't necessarily agree that you have to be gifted to get all A's; other factors (like other demands on your time and study habits) can make a huge differnece.
Being content with less than I can do is not me.

Mandatory Attendance

I love teachers that include attendance in grading. Why? Free credit. You don't have to work for all of your grade, just show up. It gives you a buffer if you do so-so on exams or papers. If you can learn everything by just reading the books, that's a sign that the teacher is not very good.

The copyright BS.

People have covered this before, but I just wanted to comment. For my major (psychology) we have to take two separate classes on research which include APA style citations. I have no problems with needing to learn it in detail because I will need to know it if I ever want to get published. (I don't know if this applies to you or your major, but it's always better to know it than to not.) If the teacher isn't teaching how to cite, it's another sign that the teacher isn't very good.

1. You can teach community college with an Associate's Degree; I won't qualify for any position at a 4-year institution until I finish my Ph.D.
2. Also, many 4-year degree programs are structured in a way that you start taking the introductory classes in your major your freshman year.
3. And what you get will be worth more than anything you pick up from a community college.

I got my two-year degree at a CC and transfered to a four-year (I'm a senior right now).
1. In my two years at the CC, I had maybe two professors who weren't PhDs. In my year at the four-year, I had one professor who wasn't a PhD (he had taken some sort of special classes to teach).
2. Yes, it's a bit harder. However, if you pick your courses at the CC carefully and the college you transfer to carefully, it's possible to get all your "extra" non-major and most of your introductory major/minor courses in the CC. (Part of the reason I picked the four-year college I did is that they are very transfer friendly. I'm graduating this year and I don't feel that I have had a heavy course load due to transferring.)
3. I have noticed no significant difference in the difficulty of classes for their levels or the amount I've learned between my community college and four-year college courses. My roommate (who transfered from a different community college) agrees. Since the college we are at is a good one, our only conclusion is that our community colleges were good as well.

Of course, this all depends on the quality of the community colleges in the area you live in...

[protege]

Of course, this all depends on the quality of the community colleges in the area you live in...

Exactly. There are some good community colleges, and some that suck. Locally, CCAC (Community College of Allegheny County) is looked on as a joke. Why? Well, they tend to take everyone...even people with straight D's in high school. Plus, the staff isn't held to the same standards as a regular college. It's fine if you plan on transferring (which is getting more difficult lately), or for the occasional "arts and crafts" class. But, the place has always been seen as a joke, and very few take their graduates seriously.

[TehShush]

It's also invaluable to students who get mad at a professor who doesn't *gasp* bend over backward to give them the grade they want. I haven't looked for myself, but there are a few in the past that would give me bad ratings because I wouldn't let them re-write a paper, I caught them at plagiarism, or because I took off the set amount of points for missing most of the discussion sections.

There is also currently a lot of debate about the effectiveness of student evaluations. Hopefully, those will go by the wayside, since they rarely give any useful information and are a way for vengeful students to get 'back' at the professor.

I do take that into account, of course. I focus on teachers that have a lot of ratings, so I can get a more overall view of the teacher, less than 15 comments means it could be skewed in favor/against the teacher incorrectly (such as a handful of friends who suck up to the teacher, or a handful of students who are all pissed because they got caught cheating off of each other). I also focus on comments that give a well-rounded opinion. "He sucks, he's always grading so hard and everyone gets bad grades!" is hardly noted, I look for stuff more like, "She's a bit strict on grading, but she gives a lot of extra credit and will stay after class if you don't understand the notes. You may not need the book, as the tests were based on the notes, but it is really helpful if you aren't good with definitions."

I hope those bad ratings don't affect the students you get, good luck with future students and future raters.

[Cat]

When I was a theatre major.....the rule was "Early is on-time, On-time is late, Late is FIRED" to get us ready for the real world. And yes, I saw a few students get lock out. Its not hard to be on time for things, even with traffic.....I always give myself about 5-10 min extra. (traffic accidents are an anomaly, it sucks when they made you late, but you grow up and find out what you can do about it the next day)

When is switched to meteorology, I had a chem teacher who was a hard ass the first quarter of the course (2 years) If you were late, goofed off, didn't go for extra help (and you needed it), she ignored you. ( I was one of the ones that went for help)
After the midterm, the slackers were gone, and she was the one of the best teachers I have ever had...even though I did poorly.

Wow....that was a long pointless post....sorry, I'll just need something to read at work tomorrow

[Arcade Man D]

As far as attendence goes, there are often *very* good reasons to require it.

a) Any language class. The only way to actually learn a language is to use it. So you use it in the class.

b) Communications classes. Public Speaking, you need to be there to give your speeches, and evaluate your classmates' speeches.

c) Labs. Of any sort. You kinda have to be there to do them.

d) Quiz-heavy subjects, like math. If you don't show for the quizzes, you'll end up failing.

[Rageaholic]

A better analogy would be that you paid for the mechanic, didn't show up to your scheduald time and so he refuses to fix your car, say what you want about being late and not attending but it's disrespectful to the teacher, it's basically saying that what they have to say and teach is beneath you to learn and that you're better and know more than someone who's spent years studying the subject you're reading out of a book.

But some teachers teach out of the textbook. So if I can read the textbook on my own time, why should I go to class just to have the teacher read it to me?

And to tell the truth, I'm not usually one to miss class unless I'm sick, sleep deprived, or too busy with other stuff (with the exception of one teacher who expected us to learn it all on our own, but I won't go there). In the end, it depends on the quality of the professor.

[DrFaroohk]

As far as attendence goes, there are often *very* good reasons to require it.

a) Any language class. The only way to actually learn a language is to use it. So you use it in the class.

b) Communications classes. Public Speaking, you need to be there to give your speeches, and evaluate your classmates' speeches.

c) Labs. Of any sort. You kinda have to be there to do them.

d) Quiz-heavy subjects, like math. If you don't show for the quizzes, you'll end up failing.

I'm all for that stuff, and I think its been mentioned a few times, but really, the grades should decide here whether you pass or fail, not what a professor feels like. If they got an A in the foreign language class and manage to complete all their labs with A++++++ efforts, guess what, they DID learn the material, whether they learned it from you the professor or from the textbook or from their tutor Barry.

I don't want to go off topic here, but just a random thought: What would happen to a student if they took a foreign language class, and then later the teacher discovers that the student is already fluent in that language? I.e. "Man, I need just 3 extra credits and I can't handle anything difficult...German? I'm German! I'm from Germany! I can do this class easy!"

[Rageaholic]

It's also invaluable to students who get mad at a professor who doesn't *gasp* bend over backward to give them the grade they want. I haven't looked for myself, but there are a few in the past that would give me bad ratings because I wouldn't let them re-write a paper, I caught them at plagiarism, or because I took off the set amount of points for missing most of the discussion sections.

There is also currently a lot of debate about the effectiveness of student evaluations. Hopefully, those will go by the wayside, since they rarely give any useful information and are a way for vengeful students to get 'back' at the professor.

I think student evaluations are a good thing. I find RMP very helpful in determining who to take, hell I've made my own evaluations.

Personally, I find the comments to say the most about the teacher. If I see "Assigns too much homework", "doesn't teach", or "is a jerk", enough, I will take that into account, but if it's just "ZOMG I H8 U1111", then I won't. I try to look for things like "really explains the material well" or if it's just a GE requirement "real easy". So far, it's done me wonders.

[Arcade Man D]

I don't want to go off topic here, but just a random thought: What would happen to a student if they took a foreign language class, and then later the teacher discovers that the student is already fluent in that language? I.e. "Man, I need just 3 extra credits and I can't handle anything difficult...German? I'm German! I'm from Germany! I can do this class easy!"

I know my school won't let you get credits for trying to pull that.

[linguist]

I don't want to go off topic here, but just a random thought: What would happen to a student if they took a foreign language class, and then later the teacher discovers that the student is already fluent in that language? I.e. "Man, I need just 3 extra credits and I can't handle anything difficult...German? I'm German! I'm from Germany! I can do this class easy!"

i've been in classes where exactly this happened. honestly, often those students end up doing worse than the non-fluent speakers, because they think they can slack off since they already speak the language. also, many of them may speak fluently, but are unfamiliar with the written forms of the language or the formal grammar rules, on which they are graded as much as speaking ability.

[Rageaholic]

1. There are some areas that do that more than others, I believe. I've never gotten a negative response about the fact that I go to a community college, though it might just be because of the recession and people in my city were hit pretty bad, so they know money can't be wasted on classes I can take for cheap.

Yup, it's upper class people that give me that crap. I just hate that snobbery like "we can afford stuff and you can't! nananana!". Like there's something bad about wanting to save money.

2. I was never the best student, mostly as I couldn't take multiple classes as well as other students. I was lucky if I got a B in a regular class, an A if it was one of those "You came to class? Wow, you're an awesome student!" kinda teachers giving the grade. So, when getting to college and only having two classes helped me focus, I got a final grade of 100 for each. With the exception of one class, I have had perfect or ner perfect grades each time... and it's made me one of those people who gets a bit bent out of shape when they get a B.

Same here. I cannot handle more than 12 credit hours and even that is pushing it. ESPECIALLY when the material is hard (coughaccountingcough). I've also had people brag about taking 15+ credit hours, trying to compare themselves to me. To which I say... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hR5YNqE3K8

3. & 4. I purposefully find laidback teachers, ones who teach and don't get all prissy over stuff like attendance and tardiness. If people don't make a big deal over a tardy, it doesn't really interrupt much. Then again, I don't attend 100+ student lectures that require you to listen closely, so I am a bit biased. The classes at my CC are about the size of the ones at highschool, the largest I saw was for about 40 students. In fact, my Thursday class is so small it is pretty much laughable! 11 students, including myself. It's an intro to internet course, which is a necessary elective that no one really 'learns' from... so the teacher herself told everyone that no one needs to come if they don't feel like it; she is required to be there, and whoever wants to hang out and go over the homework (definitions) is free to come and do so. [Mind you, most teachers aren't so laidback, it's mostly because the hardest thing we have gone over so far is what "CC" and "BCC" mean on an email because it's rarely used and thus rarely known.]
In a 'large' class of 30-ish students, where the teacher is up close to the students and has visual tools (board, projector, video, etc), a door opening takes little notice. The teacher looks up long enough to see who it is, yet continues talking as if nothing happened (*le gasp*) because they are smart enough to not interrupt their own speech about people interrupting the class. Again, the class can hear the teacher over small rustles, so a late student is barely noted when they get to their seat and pull out their classwork.

Yup. Ironically, it's usually the good teachers who get pissed at this sort of thing, you know, the ones who make it interesting. I just don't understand why teachers feel that such a minor distraction as being late is worth getting pissed off about. Sometimes you can't help being late.

5. Mmm, this is why I love Microsoft Office 7, the Word software does all that stuff for ya! In my old comp. class, we learned how to use all the new M. Office programs that were recently installed on the school computers. Click a button that gives you boxes to type information, it inputs it for you into the format you need as well as various other shortcuts. ^^; I sound like an ad for it, but oh well. I don't get so picky about citing stuff, my main issue is having a required number of sources. *eyeroll* Really? I can't just say something because I know it? I have to find that exact information somewhere in order to have a book/website/interview/etc source? (And I don't mean statistics kind of information, more along the lines of "the three axis powers were..." common knowledge stuff).

Luckly, one of my other english profs, showed us knightcite, whichs makes it all a hell of a lot easier. ANd you can focus on the actually material instead of the technical crap.

6. Yay for laidback teachers who teach instead of requiring a bunch of reading each night! Also, yay for websites like Chegg and Better World Books! I love getting overpriced books for $20, especially if it benefits others (such as the person who originally paid the full price, or how BWB focuses on world literacy).

I would suggest checking out ratemyprofessors.com if you haven't already, it's practically invaluable to a student who wants to find a decent teacher.

[/QUOTE]


The reading gets me too. At first, I didn't mind the textbooks much, but when taking other courses, any way to learn the material without having to ggo through to textbook is a blessing. Unfortunately, one of my classes makes this impossible. The assignments for each chapters are due the day we review that chapter in class. All the more reason why I hate manditory attendance.

[AdminAssistant]

The reading gets me too. At first, I didn't mind the textbooks much, but when taking other courses, any way to learn the material without having to ggo through to textbook is a blessing. Unfortunately, one of my classes makes this impossible. The assignments for each chapters are due the day we review that chapter in class. All the more reason why I hate manditory attendance.

HUH?

You hate mandatory attendance because it makes you do homework? Which helps you actually learn the material in the first place?

I don't even understand this. Honestly, if you don't want to go to class, don't go to school.