Autism as a reason to misbehave

[Lace Neil Singer]

I have a diagnosis from a doctor; however, both my mother who's a nurse, and my boyf's mother who works with autistic children, were sure of my diagnosis before. The doctor's diagnosis was just for the official label, pretty much. But I've seen so many small toddlers labeled with it that I really wonder if Aspergers can really be diagnosed that early. Autism may be, but I really can't see children of not even two being genuinely diagnosed with Aspergers.

Back when I was a kid, Aspergers didn't really exist. When I was a teenager, I saw a series of psychiatrists, and was eventually diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder. A wrong diagnosis isn't far off the mark, and a lot of these parents should get a second opinion, especially if they're using it as an excuse not to parent.

[Dreamstalker]

My misdiagnoses started as a little pup (the official diagnosis of AS came when I was 16...even that no longer completely fits now*). Let's see, I allegedly had:

Schizophrenia, which was diagnosed when I was 7. I had none of the actual symptoms (much later testing bore that out); I just think the shrink didn't know what to do with me.

Depression (roughly same age). I was on tricyclics for 2 years, which possibly had a hand in screwing me up more.

Antisocial personality disorder, MPD, and something else that was equally WTF...that psychiatrist wanted to put me on Lithium and institutionalize me because...I had an imagination and used it.

The Aspergers diagnosis came only a year after it became known in the States, by the then-expert in the field. Even then, my high school didn't want to acknowledge its existence.

Yeah, I misbehaved at times, but who wouldn't get a bit crazy with all those misses? Yes my mom got fed up with things at times, but she knew that due to these diagnoses she had to work even harder with me to break the stigma.

* An updated neuropsych exam came up with 'nonspecific learning disorder" that wasn't in itself a disability....I just learn different.

[MystyGlyttyr]

Mysty - the same thing happens to you? I know Child Rum isn't exactly unique in her reactions, but I've very rarely seen/read about it in action for someone else.

Yeah. Hard to explain, but sometimes I just get scared out of my gourd for no reason that's readily discernible. And yet if I go back to the same place and the same situation, it won't necessarily happen again. And sometimes you're just fearful. My mom will testify that many times I'd run to the car after school terrified and asking if everything is okay, and she's baffled because it's like I expect to hear about some horrific incident. Even now I'll occasionally call from the office to check and make sure things are okay, for no reason other than a burst of irrational "Oh God something's wrong right now what is it?" And it's not like that "Oh God something's wrong" feeling you get with your kids sometimes where you KNOW something has happened, you know? It's like something has happened but instead you don't know. ...it's hard to put into words, really.

There are some things I can definitely trace though. There are certain voices that freak me out. I can't describe a voice accurately in words, but...if you know what the Hardy Show is (or even if you don't, you can find it on YouTube, the episode "Itchweeed's Crib" has a lot of Oliver), Matt Hardy's "Oliver" voice is definitely one that sends me screaming for the hills. Something about the pitch or the tone or something of it just is major willies.

[LadyMage]

Yeah. Hard to explain, but sometimes I just get scared out of my gourd for no reason that's readily discernible. And yet if I go back to the same place and the same situation, it won't necessarily happen again. And sometimes you're just fearful. My mom will testify that many times I'd run to the car after school terrified and asking if everything is okay, and she's baffled because it's like I expect to hear about some horrific incident. Even now I'll occasionally call from the office to check and make sure things are okay, for no reason other than a burst of irrational "Oh God something's wrong right now what is it?" And it's not like that "Oh God something's wrong" feeling you get with your kids sometimes where you KNOW something has happened, you know? It's like something has happened but instead you don't know. ...it's hard to put into words, really.

There are some things I can definitely trace though. There are certain voices that freak me out. I can't describe a voice accurately in words, but...if you know what the Hardy Show is (or even if you don't, you can find it on YouTube, the episode "Itchweeed's Crib" has a lot of Oliver), Matt Hardy's "Oliver" voice is definitely one that sends me screaming for the hills. Something about the pitch or the tone or something of it just is major willies.

yeah I get that too, though I tend to cower behind someone instead (never was the run and scream type for some reason, unless I was on a playground, and laughing *shrugs*) but then most people saying that mentions the getting out of there without making too much of a scene (sometimes a little kid can't help but scream, I understand that) its when the parent does nothing and pawns it off on the autism and thus unable to be helped that pisses me off, at least TRY!

[kiwi]

Autism is like anything, some people use it as an excuse and others see it as something that means you just have to work harder.
I am dyslexic... would most people know that from reading my posts, not they wouldn't because I worked my butt off as a kid to retrain myself. I still to this day take extreme caution with my spelling, grammar and syntax becuase I know it is something I don't naturally "get". Sometimes I still get it wrong, I read back what I wrote later and think WTF is that? But at least I tried, I made an effort to control my behaviour.
One of my friends who is dyslexic uses it as an excuse, a constant excuse. Ask her the time, " I cant tell time Im dyslexic"
Ask her to look for a street sign as we are driving around "cant Im dyslexic"
She refuses to read because its "too hard" she refuses to get a digital watch or just practise memorising what times on the clock mean.

It makes me so angry at her that she is so very lazy about it that its like a golden pass to let her float through life.

[Lace Neil Singer]

My older brother is dyslexic; however, he always spell checks his emails, letters and indeed anything that has to be written. Both with the computer spell check and my sister in law, the human spell check. XD So, you'd never know by reading. He doesn't use it as an excuse, any more than I use my Aspergers.

[Teysa]

Your older brother sounds like my husband, Lace. He also refuses to use his dyslexia as an excuse. If he needs to write something important, he just asks me to edit for him.

The way I see things is that we all have issues we struggle with. Some have labels. Some don't. We can either learn to rise above them or go through life thinking that the world owes us something.

[gremcint]

I came across this on slashdot today: http://slashdot.org/story/09/10/18/1...aturally-Weird

why is this relevant you may ask?

This is one of the comments to the article, it is not from me at all:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=...7&cid=29785817

Premise 1) Most hackish types are either probably or definitely autistic.

Premise 2) Most autistic individuals genuinely *are* basement dwelling freaks, on a level that would make the Joker or the Addams Family look normal. Before you call me a bigot for saying that, realise that I'm an autistic person myself. My Quasimodo/Frankenstein/Joseph Merrick complex is both strong, and fully justified. Most of us genuinely are the sort of person who was interviewed in the documentary, "Trekkies."

I don't have a girlfriend, I've only had one sexual partner, and I lost my virginity very late. (at 26) Part of my current celibacy is by choice; female psychology simply doesn't have what it takes to be able to tolerate an autistic male. Women just aren't strong enough to be able to handle us. I realised that, and so I made a decision to never put another woman through what I put my ex through again.

In that film "Adam," the guy who tried to tell the woman not to get into a relationship with Adam was right.

My father was a misogynist, but I honestly am not. I loved my ex, despite what I put her through; and I left her because I loved her. I wanted her to find someone who she could be truly happy with.

If you're an autistic person, you have a moral responsibility to stay away from neurotypicals, particularly from women. They need to be protected from us.

[Mr Slugger]

There's a lady that comes into our store with her son whose autistic. And yes every time she brings him I hate it because he always attempts to destroy something. Whether he tries to snap peg hooks off the aisles (which he's done a couple of times), throw a shelf of product on on the floor, etc. And yet this parent never attempt to scold the child. I mean I do understand he's autistic, but on the same token I think he can be taught bad.

I mean personally I have a uncle that's mentally handicapped. Part of his handicap is that he will say whatever is on his mind. So say he see's a women with huge breast and he likes the sight of them he'll say it. Which makes it difficult to go into public with him especially when his thoughts are further into the gutter. But at the same time. If he says a comment that he shouldn't be saying we make sure to let him know it's not right to be saying stuff like that, and in many cases we make him apologize. And while this doesn't stop all of his comments he does know that the comments are wrong, and has learned to keep focused on other things, and if he says comments that are wrong he's spoken too. Now sure it's not autism, but I think that if a kid misbehaves and nothing is done at all and they just blame it on whatever it's far worse than even just saying no you don't do that.

[violetyoshi]

I came across this on slashdot today: http://slashdot.org/story/09/10/18/1...aturally-Weird

why is this relevant you may ask?

This is one of the comments to the article, it is not from me at all:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=...7&cid=29785817

I don't know what to say. This guy clearly is taking the stereotypes said about us too seriously, and if he wants to claim that's a cause for his own self hate, fine. That doesn't mean everyone else on the spectrum should hate themselves, or stay out of relationships.

There's a lady that comes into our store with her son whose autistic. And yes every time she brings him I hate it because he always attempts to destroy something. Whether he tries to snap peg hooks off the aisles (which he's done a couple of times), throw a shelf of product on on the floor, etc. And yet this parent never attempt to scold the child. I mean I do understand he's autistic, but on the same token I think he can be taught bad.

I mean personally I have a uncle that's mentally handicapped. Part of his handicap is that he will say whatever is on his mind. So say he see's a women with huge breast and he likes the sight of them he'll say it. Which makes it difficult to go into public with him especially when his thoughts are further into the gutter. But at the same time. If he says a comment that he shouldn't be saying we make sure to let him know it's not right to be saying stuff like that, and in many cases we make him apologize. And while this doesn't stop all of his comments he does know that the comments are wrong, and has learned to keep focused on other things, and if he says comments that are wrong he's spoken too. Now sure it's not autism, but I think that if a kid misbehaves and nothing is done at all and they just blame it on whatever it's far worse than even just saying no you don't do that.

I went to Target yesterday, and ran into two mothers who were making a big deal out of nothing in an aim to discipline. So you can have it both ways, the children don't learn to be responsible if the parent is nit-picking over things like, pick up the DVDs that fell on the ground. Sometimes it's not worth making a scene, particularly when it comes to parents who have no qualms about yelling in the store. I don't understand how a child is going to understand they did something wrong, when the parent is humilating themselves by throwing a temper tantrum. The child might just decide, "Well mom is acting up again.." and ignore them.

[IDrinkaRum]

If my daughter makes something fall off a shelf (doesn't have to be on purpose - sometimes an accidental nudge makes tihngs fall off), I tell her she has to put it back because we clean up our own messes so the people who work hard at the store don't have an extra thing to do. And it's rude to leave messes behind. She picks it up. I don't make a scene but I do explain to her. She doesn't mind the cleaning up.

Now if my daughter were to purposely destroy shelves every time we went to out (either @ every store we went to or just one particular store), I'd make sure I had a babysitter/respite care on hand so that if i had to go out to that store, my daughter wouldn't be allowed to come with me. For the mother not to discipline (or at least try to) her child is unforgivable. All children are teachable to a certain point. Doesn't matter what. Autistic/Neurotypical children need structure. And Autistic children need more structure than "normal" children.

That makes me:

[BroomJockey]

The child might just decide, "Well mom is acting up again.." and ignore them.

So you'd rather the parent do nothing than over react in that fashion? I'm not surprised. Personally, I don't think a "child" would do that. You're not going to get that kind of thought pattern until they're a teen. A child would do whatever just to get mommy to calm down.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I came across this on slashdot today: http://slashdot.org/story/09/10/18/1...aturally-Weird

why is this relevant you may ask?

This is one of the comments to the article, it is not from me at all:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=...7&cid=29785817

That guy is a twat. Autistic or not, he needs to stay away from women solely cuz he's a total twat and women deserve better.

My boyf is neurotypical, but he loves me enough so that my Aspergers doesn't matter. When I was diagnosed, he read up on it and asked his mum for stuff on it, just so he could understand me better. In return, I do my best to adapt enough so that it doesn't affect our relationship. Doesn't matter if a person is autistic, dyslexic, AHDD or whatever; if there is no trust or understanding in a relationship, it's doomed to fail.

[RootedPhoenix]

Mysty - the same thing happens to you? I know Child Rum isn't exactly unique in her reactions, but I've very rarely seen/read about it in action for someone else.

I know this was directed at Mysty, but this happens to me too. I'm not autistic, but I sometimes have the same kinds of troubles.

Sometimes it's because of a stimulus from outside. Sometimes it's a weird mood thing (like I'm way tired).

And then..there are the times where I wind up with a near-meltdown on my hands. No reason, just....out of nothing.

My meltdowns used to be that I'd be run-away-now scared, but now it's just "I wanna go home " and I sort of shut down.

I carry my iPod to keep this from happening. Maybe it's partly because of unfamiliar territory or something?

In any case (in response to the OP), I learned how to treat things respectfully. It's difficult when your mind doesn't cooperate (right pain sometimes!), but that doesn't release you from your responsibility to do all that you can.

[LadyMage]

I don't know what to say. This guy clearly is taking the stereotypes said about us too seriously, and if he wants to claim that's a cause for his own self hate, fine. That doesn't mean everyone else on the spectrum should hate themselves, or stay out of relationships.

I can attest to that! Hell been with hubby six years, four dating and two going on three married