christianity

[smileyeagle1021]

Yes, I'll say it, I have grown to truly hate Christianity.
No church will truly accept me, even the 'accepting' Methodist church has point blank told me that I am not truly welcome within their halls (when during a discussion a member of regional membership makes a comment about how being homosexual is about the worst thing you can be, it makes it quite clear what the true feelings of the members are).
If any of them were to actually follow their good book they would be trying to kill me every time I left the apartment.
they routinely vote to remove my rights (see amendment 3 in Utah and prop 8 in california). The christian legislature in Utah even wants to make it legal to fire me based on orientation.
and now the little pricks have resorted to vandalism, specifically keying a cross into my car.
No good has ever come into my life from that little cult and I now truly hate it.

Feel free to flame me all you want, but I needed to say it.

[IDrinkaRum]

What about the Episcopal Church?

Depending on the area, they have ordained openly gay men and women. Are for gay rights. Though they do not permit same sex marriages (even in places where it's legal), churches have been known to bless same sex unions.

Or start your own church/religion.

Now sure else to do.

However, don't give up.

[smileyeagle1021]

I can't try the Episcopal Church... it's still based on a book that advocated killing me.
Besides, every time I have tried to let Christ into my life it has led to pain... the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result, so at this point it would be quite literally insane for me to try again.

[Boozy]

However, don't give up.

I disagree. All signs point to "Give up".

Why follow a religion if it makes you miserable? It's an optional activity.

[IDrinkaRum]

I completely understand.

However, you could become the next L. Ron Hubbard, and we can all say "We knew SmileyEagle back when ..."



Ahem ...

Other than advocating for the Episcopalians (which, as a Catholic, is technically a bad thing), I have nothing for you but ...

More hugs and a hope you can find peace with something or the other with the Big Oreo in the Sky.

[BroomJockey]

hope you can find peace with something or the other with the Big Oreo in the Sky.

Why? The big thing up there's done nothing for him, why try to make peace with it? Agnosticism is perfectly valid, or failing that, join a polytheistic religion, or a non-Abrahamic monotheistic religion. There's tons of options out there that would be a more valid option than making peace with a being whose followers have caused Smiley no end of grief.

[Terinka]

maybe I will be a little off topic ... I am also atheist,
but my opinion is, that if you are a believer theres no need for church, have your own relationship with God, pray to him you love him, he loves you and made you the way you are, right? You and God..no need for anybody else...specially for all the people who talk "love" but act like "hate" ..hope i described what i meant....wasnt sure how to put it into words...

[Greenday]

I think it's your region more than anything. My church (that I seasonally attend) is open to anyone. Gay or straight, Christian or Jewish or Muslim, whatever. It's about as laid back as can possibly be. Then again, I also live in a much heavier liberal area than you do.

[violetyoshi]

Or start your own church/religion.

How about The Church of Fonzie?

*Don't get mad at me for not uploading the image mod, I don't see any way of doing it.

[HYHYBT]

I hope that whatever you find works for you. Good luck.

[Skunkle]

First off, I'm Christian. And I avoid telling most people I meet because, well, we DO have a very bad rep.

I admit that I haven't read the Bible as much as I could, but... I don't believe that book truly advocates killing gays. Really, now. My opinion: the Bible is composed of three types of information. The first is quotes, things Jesus is claimed to have said. These, I can believe. The second is information pertaining to people being good to themselves, to each other, and for God, and 99.999% of this information is couched in the form of parables, stories and allegories which are, it seems, too often interpreted as literal. Even Genesis, I believe, consists of intended-as-helpful information couched in the form of a fictional creation story. The third type of information is really germane in this discussion...

...and that means things like Leviticus. Leviticus does mention people being put to death for transgressions. It also describes as abominations many, many things that have been done normally in society for centuries. In my personal opinion, these are not God's laws set down by God - they are, or were, local laws that were written down under the assumtion that: These are our laws. We are Godly people. Thus, these must be God's laws.

I do not believe for one instant that Leviticus' copndemnations of people being allowed, in fact demanded, to be stoned to death for transgressions, somehow override "Thou Shalt Not Kill". The biggest proponents of the whole "gays must die, it is God's decree" are, remember, groups like Westboro Baptist. Westboro are an extreme offshoot of the Calvinist school of Christianity, which follows the notion of predestination. Some say your faith in Jesus is your ticket to salvation, while others say it is your good deeds; Calvinism says itr is neither. You are either born to be Saved or you are born to be Fallen. Sad. Very sad. This begats the Westboro ideals that, as they are certain they're Saved, anything can, will and even should befall the Fallen and God will support this, because they are predestined to fall.

Now, being Christian, I'm told I should "preach the gospel" - this tells me I'm supposed to tell people who do not know. You obviously already know about God, thus your decision to follow or nopt follow is not my place to push. Really. If you've decided this is not for you, then YOU have decided. I shouldn't get to step in and bitch about it. And really, even if you ARE Christian, it's not even my place to comment on percieved sins or transgressions - chances are, I'm guilty of just as much myself.

Now, should you decide you want to follow the Faith, I see two good options here. One is, as noted, the Episcopal Church. Some sects of Episcopalians are very open and affirming. And I don't mean in the "You're guilty of horrible sins, but we love you anyway because God says we have to" way - that's a cop-out. The other option is, as Terinka said, don't pick a church at all. Just have faith and follow God. You really don't need a church or clergy to be connected to God. He doesn't require middlemen, or even a specific location.

In the end, the choice is yours to make. But if you ever come up to Seattle, drop me a note and I'll show you to St. Mark's, the Episcopal cathedral. I mean, they have a young gay singles' church group... The pastor is openly gay, and his swearing-in (whatever it's called) ceremony was protested by Westboro...which I didn't even see at all, and I was there.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Smiley, I'm sorry.

Things clearly suck where you are. Clearly, there are A LOT of extremely misguided people out there. I didn't attend church for years because there are a alot of extremely misguided people out here, too.

However, if you were over here, I promise you it would be different. I have found an accepting place. I am lucky. Remember that the entirety of Christendom is not like where you are now, although I imagine for all purposes where you are concerned, it might as well be.

Remember that the message and the messenger are two entirely different things. But I am sure you know that.

And don't nitpick archaic details in the Bible. I know you are pretty angry and betrayed right now, but you know as well as I do there is good in there, too. (and of course, being Episcopalean, I tend to view the Old Testament as context and history anyways. The book advocating killing me, too. Something about soothsaying and oracles and witchcraft and women with big pointy noses and whatnot. I figure the guy that wrote that bit got burned by a dukkerer at one point. ) Skunkle is right...everything is trumped by the One Important Thing.

I could put you in touch with gay and lesbian worshippers at my church, if you want. They are not "tolerated until we can change them." They are loved and accepted, and can speak openly about their issues without shame or judgment.

You don't NEED a church. However, I say these things to you because judging from your past posts, you seem to want to find a place. And I am so sorry you are going through this.

The people doing this to you are failing. Remember that it is them and not the message and most certainly not you.

[Fryk]

My opnion: not only do you NOT need the "church", you don't need the church's bible, either. All you need for your own faith is you, God (or gods, or any other equivalent) and whatever philosophical works you feel are edifying. I think almost the entire Old Testament was written by the people of the time period to justify their government and control of their people. Why the hell would an all-loving being want you to invade someone else's country and slaughter its inhabitants down to every man, woman and child? I call bullshit. Someone in power wanted the land, and told everyone that God told them to invade. If an omnipotent God can punish you by sending you to hell for all eternity, why would he care about killing you on earth? He's immortal, he can't wait 30 or so years to exact his (theoretical) vengeance? Why would he give two shits about who you married or what kind of foods you ate while on earth? "Welcome to the afterlife, my cihld. I watched you on earth as you feed the poor and hungry, loved your neighbor as yourself, were just and honorable in all your ways, and were a good husband and father to your family. But you ate ham sandwiches, so I am afraid all of that doesn't matter. Enjoy hell, my child." Riiiiiiiiiiight.

Bottom line: fuck "chirstianity". It's not even a cult, like you were saying it was, because it doesn't follow the teachings of its own founder at all. You're not missing out on anything. I will say this, though. If you truly feel that God is not real, then by all means you should be an atheist or follow a more philosophical religion. But if you believe that God is real, and you're not following anything because you're angry, that is not being honest with your own heart. Only follow what YOU truly feel is the truth, and I wish you much happiness.

Ok, now I sound like a long-winded fortune cookie.

[LadyMage]

yikes sorry to hear that, and noting your mother from a previous post, I feel bad for both of you

I went agnostic myself a long time ago, although some people think I am an absurdist since I find humor in ALL relgions and how they all think they have the right answer (no offense to anyone really, its more mocking the ideals and the fanatics then the actual sane followers) so just look around and find your own path smilely

[IDrinkaRum]

I believe God played the first game of "telephone". For those who don't know what the game "telephone" is, it's this: You take a group of people. First person whispers something in the ear next to him and then they whisper what was said to the person next to them until it gets tot he last person and we see if the ending message is the same as the beginning message. For me, that explains all the "conflicting" ideas within Christianity and why there are/were so many religions to begin with. That is also why I can find no fault in any religion out there as God - in any way shape or form - gave religion to us and we interpreted it the way we saw fit.

As said before, the Episcopal Church is good.

The church Mr. Rum & I got married at is a lovely church. If I lived closer, I'd go every Sunday. I love it.

You have to do what is right for you.

And it's true. You don't need a bible, you don't need a preist, you don't need a physical church building. You can converse with God whenever/wherever you are.

I still say good luck. And may you find the peace I think you're looking for.