Why is gay marriage so "wrong"?

[Flyndaran]

Sometimes for people who think same-sex marriage is wrong, it's not so much their narrow mindedness and illogical arguments that bother me, but their insincerity. For example they'll often say "But gays and lesbians already have marriage equality and they always have. A gay man can marry a woman and a lesbian can marry a man. So ya see? Gays and lesbians already have the same marriage rights as heterosexuals!"

It's so maddeningly frustrating when they pull this trick because I think a lot of them genuinely believe it.

I'm sorry you know a lot of morons.
Personally, I think hetero-marriage laws should be struck down for being sexist. I can't marry him, because he is male. Sounds sexist to me.

[smileyeagle1021]

I'm gonna go ahead and save some people time, basically the individual was unable to back her arguements again and again, she would backpedal, tapdance around and outright ignore what people were asking. She seems to be unwilling to actually back up what she was saying with any proof but she would keep claiming there was proof. At times she compared gay marriage to beastiality and marying cars, she kept saying that denying gay marriage wasn't denying right despite evidence right in her face. Basically her entire arguement boiled down to I'm right because I am and that's the way it is.

Agreed, you forgot to mention that she tried to pull the "I have gay friends" card, then went on to bemoan every single "flaw" in the "gay lifestyle".
I too would love to hear an argument against gay marriage (or homosexuality) in general that don't boil down to "for the bible says so" or "I think it's icky" or "it will lead to our extinction" (which I always chuckle at... because you know that if gay marriage is allowed everyone will turn gay). Come to me with a well thought out argument and I will accept it... until then, use stupid arguments and be prepared to be treated like an idiot.

The black church elder doing the readings. The native american assisting with the altar. The openly gay, biracial couple sitting among a cluster of old white southern ladies. The teenager reading the announcements. The incredible respect they all had for one another and the complete lack of regard for color, sexual orientation, age, gender, whatever.

I'm sorry, I just can't see that as being real. It goes to counter to EVERY experience I have ever had within the Christian church. Every single one I've been involved with has been little more than a White's only club (and straights only, must remember that bit too). I for one truly envy those lucky enough to be born in a part of the country where Christianity is more than a hate cult... honestly I do... I can never be a part of it though. For the time being I have to view Christianity as the ONE main organization standing between me and equality, so forgive me if I just completely disregard that whole paragraph as a nice delusion.

"Adam and Steve" is nonsense. No gay man would go by "Steve". It would be "Adam and Steven".

Oh so true... though I am guilty of going by Smiley in real life (and I NEVER use my full name).

[Bloodsoul]

Help me out here, but.. what's so special about getting married, anyway? (this coming from a single guy)

What can you get out of marriage that you can't get out of simply living with the person you love for the rest of your life?

No marriage would mean no divorce, although then again I doubt that would have any effect to the court dramas and legal fees and who gets what so that probably doesn't change anything.

*shrugs*

[Nyoibo]

What can you get out of marriage that you can't get out of simply living with the person you love for the rest of your life?

Things like next of kin rights and such.

[Arcade Man D]

Things like next of kin rights and such.

Not to mention tax deductions, better tax rates for being married, ability to have a will withstand a challenge from blood relatives (basically, ability to stay in your loved one's will).

Ability to visit your loved one in the hospital, automatic guardianship of children after death....

There's a list of about 63-65 rights for married couples that are not available for gay couples due to the current definition of marriage, and many of them are not going to be available for them unless it gets approved nationally, due to some of them relying on federal agencies (IRS), instead of state.

[Boozy]

I've made many posts here about the legal benefits of state-recognized marriage, so I won't bother doing so again.

But it's worth noting that gay couples are not making a fuss over this just to make a point. By denying homosexuals the right to marry, they are denying them important legal protections other couples take for granted.

[Skunkle]

Smiley, if you ever happen to come up to Seattle, message me and I'll take you to a service at St. Mark's Cathedral, which is Episcopal. I'm not trying to convert or convince you to rejoin anything - but I do love the idea of showing you that there are good, loving Christians who believe that God is love. I fiormly believe that, in every faith, there are good people somewhere. RecoveringKinkoid is really correct. Example: Though celibacy is imposed on the clergy of Episcopal churches, no matter their orientation, the pastor of St. Mark's is gay, and open. Westboro Baptist protested at his...whatever they call the swearing-in ceremony...though thankfully, I didn't see them. Did get to see Desmond Tutu speak there, though (yay!). I'm an EXTREMELY infrequent churchgoer, but when I do go, I go there. The ceremonies are similar to Catholic ones: there's a processional, a lot of music, a large choir, a large pipe organ, and Communion is done with a loaf of bread and red wine - no wafers or grape juice, though there's no shame in staying in the pew and not taking Communion and many do so. The pastor's sermons are, honestly, the only ones that have ever really MADE me listen, and I have heard only words of praise and love. There is no hellfire and damnation there. There is also an informal service, much simpler, on Wednesday nights. The church also hosts a gay/lesbian singles' group. Seriously. Gay people come in, sit around, be friendly, and talk about faith, life and whatever. I haven't been yet, but I know someone who goes. As stated above: This church welcomes ALL of God's children. Meaning anyone and absolutely everyone is welcome, and without any half-hearted "love the sinner, hate the sin (and your orientation is a horrible sin) junk". There is also an Episcopal church, a tiny one, in my suburb. Don't know about current, but the paster who just retired was open, too. When he outed himself IN a ceremony, half the church walked out, and half stayed put...and the membership soon filled out again. I haven't been to services there yet, but our suburb's PFLAG grioup meets in their basement community hall.

I have heard not one convincing argument as to why I, as a Christian, or why anyone, should be able to stand against gay marriage. These aren't "gay" rights, really - they're HUMAN rights. Rights that are equal for all people, regardless of...anything.

If you make it up to Seattle, Smiley, message me. I'll be happy to take you to a service... and if we're partway through and it's not your thing, we'll leave.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Smiley, I'm sorry you think that, but I assure you I am not lying. I am not in your town, your town sounds pretty rife with some unpleasant stuff.

I know it sounds unusual. However, that is why I chose that church, and that is why I continue to drive all the way across town on Sunday mornings even though I now live far away.

I'd be interested in knowing how many churches, and how many denominations you tried. Because I was a different denomination before this one, and could have said that pretty much every experience was the same, also.

I'm not lying and I'm not deluded. It's not like there are not people here who could show up unnannounced at my church for the sole purpose of calling me a liar. Some of you are close enough in for a road trip. Here's the church.

Also, Skunkle, did you mean celibacy was NOT imposed on clergy? My priest is married.

[gremcint]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeK...er_profilepage

posted before but relevant here.

[Skunkle]

As far as I knew, it WAS imposed, but that was only a guess based on many churches having that be a requirement, and the fact that the pastor of St. Mark's is. But it's quite possible that it's simply his choice. He IS openly gay, though, and this was known before he took the position...

...hence why the absolute creepiest church group I know, Westboro Baptist, protested at his ceremony. Though I wouldn't put it past them to protest at anything, any more - I braved their awful, gut-wrenching website at one point a few years ago, and they were pretty darn direct about the notion that EVERY SINGLE WORLD PROBLEM, natural and manmade, are all 100% the result of homosexuality and America's "widespread acceptance" (Not by a long shot...YET) of it. No, really. The deaths in the war. The earthquakes and the tidal waves. The failing economy. All are disasers foised on us by God. Mind, Westboro Baptist is an extreme version of the Calvinist format, wherein some people are destined to be Saved and some are destined to be lost, and there's not a darn thing a person can do - if you're predestined to be saved, apparently, you'll know, and God laughs at those predestined to fall. Laughs. And they have the God-given right to laugh too.


........

This is not like the God in Whom I believe. Not at all.

And I still haven't had a single person give me an answer as to why we should follow that one "rule" in Leviticus, and not follow ANY of the others. Note I didn't say a "good answer". I haven't had ANY answer. The one single person who replied "Well, because they're just not applicable any more"? That's not an answer. That's a brush-off.

Again, from an out gay guy to another gay guy: Smiley, if you ever get up to Seattle, message me and I'll take you to see St. Mark's. And incidentally - "cathedral" applies only in the technical sense. Most of the interior is very plain, since the church went bankrupt building it due to the stock market crash, and didn't get it back until the 50s. The Army used it as an armory during the war. Most of what's been added has an austere 60s look, teakwood and minimalist brass. The rest is stone and wooden timbers.

[HYHYBT]

...whatever they call the swearing-in ceremony...

I believe it's "ordination" for priests, and "consecration" for bishops (and buildings). Not that it matters, of course.