Twilight!

[Ree]

Half the girls I know read that crap and now they are fixated on this unrealistic idea of a boyfriend.

Girls have had unrealistic ideas of a boyfriend for years, from the moment they are read their first fairy tale.

Pop culture has been fucking with people's expectations and societal perceptions for ever. This is nothing new. Get over it.

Exactly, Kalli.

[LadyBarbossa]

To clarify, I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong to like anything. People yes, can like whatever the please. It's the unnaturally obsessive behavior that the Twilight series awakens in fans that disturbs me, as well as the vicious behavior towards non-fans and casual fans. Frankly, it's entirely uncalled for to ask someone if they like Twilight, and if the person says no, to ask them "Oh my god why not, what's wrong with you?" And then question everything from the person's IQ, sexuality, and if their sex drive even works at all. There are also stories popping up everywhere about fans being violent when they discover that another person doesn't share their love of the series. Teenagers have been beaten up, had rocks thrown at them, and their pets harmed just for saying they dislike Twilight.

Liking a series is one thing, but camping out for days at a movie theater and squealing like a maniac over it is another. Women in the 40+ bracket have thrown their dirty panties at 17 year old Taylor Lautner, who plays werewolf Jacob Black. Kind of a rabbit trail, but the double-standard displayed here is unfair, and this behavior is sick. Let's turn the tables for a moment, and imagine, if you will, 40+ year old men throwing their used underwear at Emma Watson, before she turned 18, or Miley Cyrus? Hell, even if they threw their shorts at adult actresses, I'm sure the public reaction would be quite different than the "LOL cougars, go Taylor!" attitude. And on the opposite end of the spectrum, we have girls under the age of ten racing up to Robert Pattinson, pulling down at the necks of their shirts and begging him to bite them. Some teenaged fans have actually scratched their own necks enough to draw blood and told him "I did it for you!" or asking him to lick the blood.

How about mentioning the part where Bella completely rejects Edward's "protection" and saw whoever the hell she wanted anyway, and the part where Edward admitted wrongdoing with that behaviour?

I was reading a domestic violence poster at the college today, and here are a few of the signs it listed -

Do you feel that you can’t do anything right for your partner?

In Bella's narrative, she is constantly expressing how inferior to Edward she feels she is, and how unworthy she is to be with him because he's so perfect.

feel emotionally numb or helpless?

When Bella is not with Edward, this is pretty much how she describes her mood. And during their brief break up period, she can't even think, let alone say his name or any of his family member's names without having physical and emotional pain, even months after they have left.

Does your partner criticize you and put you down?

Edward is forever reminding Bella how incapable she is and jokes that she might hurt herself doing laundry, even though she already has an inferiority complex about how much of a klutz she is.

blame you for his own abusive behavior?

He also frequently brings up the fact that he wouldn't be at a risk for becoming dangerous if Bella didn't smell so good. She constantly asks him to turn her vamp, which would effectively make her stop looking and smelling like filet mignon, yet he refuses. While the idea of her wanting to be undead and damned is questionable, it's still her decision and he does not respect it, leaving her human and in danger of tempting him to kill and eat her.

Does your partner:

have a bad and unpredictable temper?

Check.

threaten to commit suicide if you leave?

Both partners see suicide as an acceptable route to take should they ever be separated from each other, by death or not. Edward wastes no time in trying to kill himself when he is led to believe that Bella has died.

destroy your belongings?

Maybe not destroy, but after leaving her, Edward sneaks into Bella's house and removes all photographs of himself and his family from her personal album. He did not allow her to make her own choice in the matter.

act excessively jealous and possessive?
control where you go or what you do?
keep you from seeing your friends or family?

Ed constantly puts down the few human friends that Bella has, and is excessively jealous of her friendship with Jacob, going so far as to dismantle the engine in her truck to stop her from seeing him. I'm sorry, but if a guy did this to me, I'd kick him so hard, he'd be coughing up his own testicles.

constantly check up on you?

I'd say that crawling in through the bedroom window and watching them sleep in their own house definitely qualifies.

While this is a fictional story, the message it constantly conveys is a negative one, and I have to wonder what Stephenie Meyer was thinking when she put all of these themes into her books.

*SPOILER ALERT*





She could have empowered Bella and given so much more strength and depth to her character if she'd written her to recognize that her relationship with Edward was unhealthy, but in the end, he's the one she picks. And even this might not have been so bad if Meyer hadn't created her werewolf pack. I'm in the midst of finishing my read of New Moon, and I have to admit that for the greater part of the story, Jacob Black is a really nice guy, despite his furry problem. He's kind, easygoing, and Bella actually has a personality when she's around him. She admits that being with Jacob makes her feel good and happy. Yet the story only finishes out to once again prove the old saying of "Nice guys finish last." I actually have a friend who dated a douchewad like Edward when she was a teenager, and when the inevitable happened and he dumped her like a soiled bedsheet, her parents had to keep a close eye on her because she kept threatening suicide. Her life was simply not worth living without this guy, even though all he ever did was put her down and even thought she was worthless enough to the point he jokingly said she should go ahead with her suicide.

Fortunately for my friend, she is now happily married to a different, wonderful guy and has two beautiful daughters and a stepson. But this isn't always the case. I just think that there are enough abusive and unhappy relationships in the world without someone encouraging it with a work of fiction that will appeal to incredibly impressionable teenage audiences who drink up Mrs. Meyer's every word like scripture.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

When Rudolph Valentino died several women committed suicide in despair. The crowds at his funeral were so massive and so emotional that people were seriously injured in the crush. Fan violence often occurs before, during and after sports events, for example, on a regular basis. Just this weekend some pop star showed up at a mall and thousands of tween girls got so violent that five people were sent to the hospital. People get worked up and freak out on other people all the time. It's not right, but it happens. A lot. It happens to people of all ages. Singling out a specific book because of some people's behavior over it does not make the book a menace to society.

I don't understand why teenagers aren't allowed to have bad taste anymore. I have a coworker who is very musical. He loves classical stuff, but thinks that nearly all 20th century music is crap, and is constantly bitching and moaning about how all the young people have such terrible taste and it's all rock music's fault and it should all be banned so teenagers will be FORCED to appreciate "good" music. How are you supposed to appreicate quality music, or quality literature, without ever reading any bad stuff? That's how you learn what is poor quality---you take in both good and bad and notice the differences between the two.

Personally, I'm a little disturbed by your obsession over these books. You have taken the time to compare, in great detail, the plot of a fictional novel to a list of domesitc violence signs. You have read the books just so you can condemn them. I find that to be extremely obsessive.

[Kalli]

I was going to quote some of your points, thephonegoddess, and explain how I agree with them, but it seems a lot easier to just say I agree with all of it.

Especially how it seems odd to single out a book and declare the tween obsessiveness unhealthy, and then go on to display something very close to obsessiveness when trying to discredit it.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

A few bones to pick ThePhoneGoddess:

First: That something happens a lot is not an excuse for allowing it to happen (or more specifically, refraining from speaking out against it). Murder has always happened and probably always will, doesn't mean we should treat any different.

Second: Singling out a single object/person/idea is necessary for a good debate. The alternative being an attempt to cogently debate about hundreds if not thousands of things at once because they're all very similar. Pursuing a debate about Twilight being bad is not the same as claiming that it's more of a negative thing than the WoW books, or corporate malfeasance, or spanking one's children. Right now, we're talking about Twilight, and that's it unless someone specifically compares it to something or specifically claims that it's the worst thing ever.

Third: There is a world of difference between us not liking obsession with Twilight and your friend's dislike for every other genre of music. Your friend is single-handedly placing his own tastes above that of a great many other people while simultaneously advocating the removal of said people's right to like what they like. The point that most (I'd say all, but I'm erring on the side of caution) the rest of us are making is that Twilight specifically and not vampire/romance novels as a whole is not only responsible for disgusting behavior, but also setting an (extremely) bad example for what 'love' should be.

Fourth: Sure, go ahead and read Twilight to see if it's bad. It very plainly is (extremely bad) but instead of sampling it and comparing it to something else, the Twilight fans we have a problem with are instead holding it aloft as literary genius and a handbook for 'true love'. This being roughly similar as praising a song with no melody or tune as 'genius' or rifle with no stock or sights as 'deadly'.

and finally:
Aren't well-thought-out, detailed and factual arguments a good thing? Isn't that what we want? Seeing as that's something this world is deplorably short on, I don't see why that's a problem. If you feel strongly about something, you should speak our about it. If you speak out about something, you should do it in a factual and intelligent manner. In order to achieve this, one must spend time researching the facts etc. If I felt very strongly that Zombieland is an excellent movie, I should say so. If I'm debating that topic, would it be obsessive for me to research the film, analyze it's components and present them in detail?

[Lace Neil Singer]

My main problem with obsessive Twilight fans is that there's no pleasing them. If you haven't read the books and say you dislike it, they then shriek, "You don't know anything! You haven't read them!" If you do read the books and make intelligent points on what is bad, they shriek, "Why are you so obsessed over how bad Twilight is that you spend time pointing out its faults!"



I for one am not condemning anyone for liking the book. Funny, I could have sworn that I have friends online who love the book, and who I chat to regularly despite my feelings on the subject. How can that be? Oh yes, cuz they don't screech insults at me for disliking the books, or tell me to get over it cuz I dislike it. In return, I respect their choice of book, and don't insult them for liking what I consider trash. Not hard at all.

I read a lot of crap; for example, trashy celebrity magazines, but I don't read about Kerry Katona and think that her relationship with Mark is the bestest thing ever, despite the fact that it's clearly abusive. I will also add that if as a fan all you want is for people to agree with you and not put down your fave music/book/food, then feel free to start a pro board. Fact is, people are going to dislike your fave and if you want debate, then you can't just screech, "Get over it!" or "Just cuz you hate it, doesn't mean I can't read it!" when people are being civil and polite when expressing their dislike.

By the way, this is not directed at anyone on here. However, I have encountered such immaturity on another board where a Twihard actually ended up on a ban for harrassing a non fan. O_o

[the_std]

It sounds like Twilight has become one of the most ultimately divisive pop-culture icons of this decade. You're either for it (and a brain-dead, trend-following Meyer zombie) or against it (and a elitist snob with too much time on their hands), and it is "us" versus "them". When I see people debating for or against Twilight, I see a lot of "this is what's wrong with society" undertones, or "you just don't understand us" teenaged mentality, both of which are pretty dumb. I just don't understand why people get so heated over this. Yes, the fans like it. Some of them like it so much that they lose their minds over it. Decry the violence, talk about how murder is wrong, and the kids are going to want to get into it even more. Taboo things are attractive. If you don't like it, who cares? I'm sure there are plenty of other books out there that you don't like, too. I understand that those other books might not being shoved into your grill right now, but give it time and this, too, will pass. It is a fad. It is a clique. It will go away. Stephanie Meyer is not likely going to be the new Shakespeare.

[Boozy]

I'm in the midst of finishing my read of New Moon...

Why are you reading something you so despise?

I don't understand the campaign against these books. For example, I followed someone's link to some sort of anti-Twilight forum, and I was amused at the mulit-page diatribes being posted there.

Methinks they doth protest too much, if you get my meaning. No one spends that much time and energy deconstructing something they profess to hate. They aren't fighting human rights violations or pediatric cancer. These are just some books they claim they don't care for.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Read my post; maybe she feels she needs to read it just to cry down all the diehards who say that if you haven't read it, then you can't comment.

I see it as Marmite. Love it, or hate it, there is no middle ground. However, I am yet to see a fan of Marmite start attacking or screaming at someone who hates the stuff. O_o

[jackfaire]

This is my opinion

Reading Twilight because you like it okay fine.

Telling me that you now want a boyfriend who is, (insert list of stalker tendencies here)

I understand things like this screw with expectations etc The problem comes when no one is then educating these people about the difference between fiction and what is good behavior and what is bad behavior.

[LadyBarbossa]

Yes, for those of you wondering why I read something I find repulsive, it is for the purpose of being able to have a valid argument as to why I dislike it. I find it incredibly unfair and ignorant for people to bleat about how much they hate something or squeal that 'It sucks' when they know nothing about it.

That being said, I find it saddening to hear more and more reports of high school and even college English professors are devoting entire classes to Twilight, especially given Mrs. Meyers' gross misuse and abuse of the English language in her books.

As for getting into a heated debate over Twilight, I figured that was the purpose of the Fratching forums

Seriously, if I have to see Twilight ads on 90% of websites I open, have it glare at me from magazine racks, store displays, and hear it mentioned on every news program I listen to no matter the time of day, there's no reason I can't state my disgust for the series how how we are being forced to deep throat it at every possible turn. I don't look for things to hate, but when it manifests itself in my daily life like a severe cockroach infestation, I have to say something. As for the 'TwilightSucks' forums, I will agree that's taking things too far. I've perused them before and it disappoints me that the attitude and behavior displayed by a majority of members there is often ruder and more out of hands that the rabid fans of the series itself.

[tropicsgoddess]

And I'm mostly embarrassed that my nephew, 17, is going to see New Moon on Friday because he's just DYING to see it and he's a stupid enough fuck to go alone even after finding out his friend and friend's sister won't be able to go as well. At least if they went, it'd look like the sister dragged them to it. I'd like to clock him nice and hard with a clue-by-four for telling me "It takes a real man to admit he likes Twilight" when I told him he should check his manhood in at the theater door.

I'm pissed off at his friends' idiot mother who let her daughter read this shit because it has "Such a wonderful abstinence message and it's clean, wholesome reading" because if she hadn't, the stupid prude wouldn't have gotten her brother and, in turn, my nephew, turned on to this tripe.

Stephenie Meyer, go play in traffic.

I think your nephew may need to have his man pass suspended or even revoked for that.

[Nyoibo]

So I was reading FML and the one at the top of the list just now...

"Today, I realized that our generation will be remembered as the kids who liked sparkly vampires. FML"

I cracked up.

[Boozy]

That's very cute that teenagers think that their generation will be remembered for the dumb shit they're doing now. Teens don't understand that the things they do and like in high school will a) be forgotten in several years, and b) usually don't matter in the greater scheme of things.

I'm not going to write off a whole generation just because they're stupid teenagers at the moment. They are more likely to be remembered for something like being the first generation to have little robots injected into their bodies, or computer chips implanted behind their eyes.

[jackfaire]

Twilight will be the thing that decades from now they are sitting around the table with family and friends enjoying thanksgiving dinner and someone will say "remember when" and they will laugh and smile