Double standards

[jackfaire]

Seriously, people... I'm trying to see things from your point of view, but I can't fit my head that far up my own ASS!

First I always love that line and second frigging awesome that your a GL fan.

[AdminAssistant]

I can't remember who said it, but someone in the Octomom thread (I think) said that while the Duggars were also a large family, at least they were paying their way and not existing on government handouts.

No, they rely on the kindness and donations of a local church and the exploitation of their children on television. I have friends from that area, and one of them met one of the Duggar girls - he said she was zombie-like, wouldn't speak to anyone, and seemed very sheltered. Have as many kids as you like, but don't do it to form a freakin' cult.

[blas87]

Don't the Duggars have grandchildren from their oldests, and they are still having kids?

[BlaqueKatt]

Don't the Duggars have grandchildren from their oldests, and they are still having kids?

yes and people are blaming the medical problems of their last child on the mother "having too many children". Yet any woman who is pregnant could have THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS, but no one would say "oh it's because it's your first/second/third child"

No, they rely on the kindness and donations of a local church and the exploitation of their children on television.

the church members willingly give to them, and Jon and Kate plus 8 is exploitation-look what happened when they became "famous"-the druggars are mainly doing the show because of all the criticism of their choices-it's more of a "hey look these kids are being taken care of-not neglected" as everyone seems to think MUST be the case, I mean my family only had two kids and we were both neglected/abused so anyone with more kids HAS to do the same.

and one of them met one of the Duggar girls - he said she was zombie-like, wouldn't speak to anyone, and seemed very sheltered.

so being shy and sheltered =cult, um no have you ever met a strict southern Baptist, Mormon, Amish, or Mennonite, or Hasidic Jew? they generally are very sheltered and don't talk to outsiders, are they all cult members? Amish and Hasidic Jews(not ALL of them but most) still rely on "matchmakers", as in they don't choose who they marry-they are TOLD who they will marry, no room for discussion-they choose to live their lives differently than I do-does it affect me at all? Do I have any right to say they're living their lives "wrong" because they aren't doing the same thing as I do? No and Hell no.

Ps. both my husband and myself were "shy and sheltered" due to being homeschooled-I guess we must be cult members

[AdminAssistant]

the church members willingly give to them, and Jon and Kate plus 8 is exploitation-look what happened when they became "famous"-the druggars are mainly doing the show because of all the criticism of their choices-it's more of a "hey look these kids are being taken care of-not neglected" as everyone seems to think MUST be the case, I mean my family only had two kids and we were both neglected/abused so anyone with more kids HAS to do the same.

so being shy and sheltered =cult, um no have you ever met a strict southern Baptist, Mormon, Amish, or Mennonite, or Hasidic Jew? they generally are very sheltered and don't talk to outsiders, are they all cult members? Amish and Hasidic Jews(not ALL of them but most) still rely on "matchmakers", as in they don't choose who they marry-they are TOLD who they will marry, no room for discussion-they choose to live their lives differently than I do-does it affect me at all? Do I have any right to say they're living their lives "wrong" because they aren't doing the same thing as I do? No and Hell no.

The Duggars are still living off someone else's dime; they are not self-supporting as they claim. I think all reality TV shows that focus on or contain children are child exploitation. If it were a scripted drama, those kids could only be on set for 30 minutes to a few hours per day. But because it's "reality" those kids get cameras in their faces all day, every day. It can't be healthy. I don't think the kids are neglected, but I worry about that situation. Kids need to be social with people outside of their families, home schooled or not.

Look, I'm Arkansan, I've been hearing about the Duggars for as long as I can remember, and I don't get what's so special about being a child factory. And then keeping all those kids secluded from the outside world/real life. I'm sure for each individual person, the birth of a child is their own little miracle. However, IMO, it's a biological process that happens all the time and not particularly worthy of praise.

I was raised in a Southern Baptist church. While the church leadership is completely nutty (I wonder if they still boycott Disney?), regular members are not unusually shy. Quite the opposite, I'd say. I actually do feel I have the right to protest 'matchmakers' and arranged marriages if the woman is being forced into an unhealthy or abusive relationship for the sake of family. (Again, it's okay in America but not in Yemen?)

[Boozy]

However, IMO, it's a biological process that happens all the time and not particularly worthy of praise.

I don't understand TLC programming in any sense. They are obsessed with very fertile women and the vertically challenged. It seems that every show they do is about some couple with a lot of kids, or some family of little people.

And that's the end of the drama. Nothing happens on these shows. Oh look! The Duggars make a birthday cake! The little people go out for dinner!

I make cakes and go out for dinner all the time. Where's MY show?

[AdminAssistant]

I make cakes and go out for dinner all the time. Where's MY show?

Exactly! Man, a "Real Lives of Graduate Students" show would have all kinds of drama! (And a lot of alcohol. )

I admit that part of it is my own bitterness at having a lot of my own accomplishments washed away because my sister gave birth. She happened to have my nephew a month after I graduated from undergrad. My four years of hard work, blood, sweat, and tears was completely ignored. You graduated? So what?! She got knocked up, bitched about it for 9 months, and then pushed a baby out! That's a much bigger accomplishment!

Yeah. No. I did eventually tell everyone how much that hurt me, and they made up for it when I got my master's. But still, I don't get the obsession with birth. Millions of women all over the world do it all the time.

[Rageaholic]

My only concern about people having so many kids would be overpopulation, but I think a lot of what can be blamed for that can be traced to ignorance and cultural presure to procreate. I wouldn't judge anyone for having kids because they want kids and know they would be able to care for them, but that should be the reason. It shouldn't be about what culture says.

[Lace Neil Singer]

My main problem with having loads of kids is when people do so a) out of ignorance of birth control and/or laziness or b) cuz they want to screw the system and get more benefits. In both cases, you get badly behaved and sometimes criminally minded children of lazy, scrounging parents who are perfectly happy to lie around getting handouts from the government and to hell with disclipining their kids or teaching them to be productive members of society.

However, if someone wants to breed a football team of kids and is looking after them and bringing them up decently, then that's no-one's business but their own. They're not hurting anyone else by their actions and if the kids are well behaved and well mannered then they're not causing any problems for the rest of us. Plus, it's not always large families that end up a menace to society, either.

[Fire_on_High]

However, many of them go the other way around and actually start chastising and mocking people who take their husband's name, have children, or do things that are mainstream.

Honestly, I think many of these people have gotten to the point where they just want to buck every single tradition and norm just for the sheer sake of it.

I've noticed that...quite a few of my friends were APPALLED that I didn't agonize for a single second about taking my husband's name when I got married. It's simply how things are done in the way I was raised and I don't see any issue with it.

He cooks, cleaning gets split by what needs cleaned and what time of day it needs it, I work on the computers. I'm a mess in the kitchen, he doesn't have the knack for troubleshooting and finding weird hackish fixes that I do. We're both happy with it, but sometimes the amount of odd looks makes me wonder if EITHER side of my friends (the far left friends from IRC, or the far right from another forum) have ever been presented with anything even slightly out of the norm before.

[jackfaire]

But still, I don't get the obsession with birth. Millions of women all over the world do it all the time.

My mom is hurt when my siblings don't do anything for Mother's Day. Let's just say she wasn't the best mom and move on.

"Mom Mother's day is about being a mom not about popping a baby out"

To me yes being a parent is hard work and is an accomplishment. Going against the flow of nature and raising the child in your womb for 18 years cuz you won't let them out now that would be an accomplishment more so than doing what your body is going to do anyway.

[BlaqueKatt]

My main problem with having loads of kids is when people do so a) out of ignorance of birth control

not to derail(please stay on topic) but how can you be upset with a person for ignorance of birth control? Ignorance is defined as The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed-how is it their fault that someone else didn't give them information, and not having the information how would they know they needed it, or know what they thought was correct was wrong? I can understand being upset about being to lazy to use it, but plain ignorance as opposed to willful ignorance-yeah not even close to the same thing.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I've noticed that...quite a few of my friends were APPALLED that I didn't agonize for a single second about taking my husband's name when I got married. It's simply how things are done in the way I was raised and I don't see any issue with it.

People get appalled by that? O_o I've been talking about getting married one day to my boyf and taking his surname, and no-one's ever said anything bad about that.

[AdminAssistant]

People get appalled by that?

People get appalled because they associate taking the last name with the old idea that women are a husband's property. Personally, the only reason I would take my BF's name is that I want to make it easier for my descendants to track down their ancestry, and we're a patrilinear society. (And, to be frank, your maiden name is still your father's name, which is why some REAL hardcore feminists make new names like "Marychild".)

The one thing I never want is to be referred to as Mrs. His Full Name. That completely erases my existence as an individual.

[Boozy]

I took my husband's name because I want our children to have the same last name as me.

He could have taken my name, but he's the only one in his family likely to carry on his family name. Whereas I have a brother who will probably have kids one day.