that everything with a docking station is proprietary

[Dreamstalker]

Apparently in the greater Kansas City Metro area, because that's where I've run into it the most. "Oh, you have a PC? I don't understand why anyone uses a PC. I have a Mac. Macs are just so user-friendly. Bill Gates is a wanna-be crook. Windows is for stupid people. I can't believe you didn't get an IPod!" blah blah blah

the main reason why I don't by Apple products? They're more expensive. Always

Yup. A friend was going to get a mac, but saw the light when pricing things out...not only would the computer itself be 3x more expensive, she would need to buy all new peripherals.

I run into the Apple-snobbery in Boston as well, my little town in particular (of course, here you'll see Mummy buying an eight-year-old an ipod, so...snobbery in general abounds, but the Apple fans tend to be more rabid about it).

There was actually a small rash of robberies/iPod thefts where the perp(s) would go after people with the distinctive Apple headphones.

I've worked on macs and don't like them much...proprietariness(?) (my standard software toolkit doesn't work at all on macs) and if anything inside goes wrong there's not really anything that can be done short of shipping it back. Typically when people here call a computer tech they want stuff fixed zomgrightnao.

[BlaqueKatt]

How does a firmware update kill a computer?

it killed the ipod not sure where you pulled "killed computer" from-just like some of the firmware updates are killing iphones. I had a perfectly functioning 3g ipod-itunes automatically updated the firmware and bricked it-one of my friends hooked it up to his mac to try and fix it-it read as a 999GB hd-he scoured the mac forums and found out it was a "known issue" but apple figured it didn't need to be addressed/fixed as the affected users were offered 10% off a new ipod video.

[RootedPhoenix]

Apple's PR reply to shipping ipods with windows viruses:

“As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses,” said Apple, “and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it.” Even to fans of Apple and the Mac OS, the sub-text was obvious: ‘it’s only because we accommodate PC users that we have to deal with these sorts of Windows-only problems,’ Apple seemed to be saying, ‘but yeah, it’s partially our fault, too.’

IMO, you've bolded the wrong bit. You've skipped over the fact that they said that they were more upset with themselves about it. As in they were upset that such a thing had occurred at all, and that it was their fault. Virus vulnerabilities don't only happen in the programs or OSes of any one company. At the same time, how is Apple to know every vulnerability of an OS that isn't theirs?

If Microsoft Office for Mac caused problems with my computer due to a virus, it wouldn't only be Microsoft's fault. My computer's OS was made by Apple, a totally different company, and it has virus vulnerabilities too.

I'm not limited to using one specific "store" or program to transfer music-I like that. I didn't have to install anything on my computer-it "just worked" right out of the box with WMP which was already on my computer-it did come with software, which I eventually installed-but wasn't forced to.

Except that you just said you had to have Windows Media Player or the MP3 player's proprietary software. That's a limit to me.

By the same reasoning, I could say that your MP3 player was awful, because I'd have to download something I don't already have. iTunes is on my computer already, so I guess that makes iTunes better, right?

Except that it doesn't. I'd just as soon go out and get an MP3 player that had no middleman program at all. SD cards are a lovely feature, which iPods don't have. Expandability is awesome.

The reason I bought my last iPod is that I knew I liked iTunes, I didn't want my music spread across a dozen SD cards that I personally would lose in 2.5 seconds (I have a ton of music, and I lose things easily), and I liked my previous iPod a great deal.

Nobody else should be pushed to choose as I did, when they don't need what I do.

As far as the original topic about docking stations....are there adapters of any kind? Like, say, an iPod connection to micro USB connection..or something? Would such a thing even help? It does seem terribly stupid of them not to try to at least put out an adapter of some kind when they know what the next biggest section of the market is using. Even if 70% of everyone uses an iPod, you can't just ignore the other 30%. Don't these people want to sell as much as they can?

[HYHYBT]

"it killed the ipod not sure where you pulled "killed computer" from"
I got it from misreading your post Sorry about that.

[BlaqueKatt]

Except that you just said you had to have Windows Media Player or the MP3 player's proprietary software. That's a limit to me.

And windows media player is part of windows it's built in to the OS-itunes forces you to have both itunes and quicktime-I never used QT ever but still had to have it or itunes didn't work at all-you can't get them as separate programs-so for the few websites that use QT I can't use them as I'm not filling my computer up with bloatware.

As far as the original topic about docking stations....are there adapters of any kind? Like, say, an iPod connection to micro USB connection..or something?

no because apple won't allow it-their dock connector is proprietary so they won't license another company to make an adapter-they're trying to bully consumers into buying their product.

[Dreamstalker]

At the same time, how is Apple to know every vulnerability of an OS that isn't theirs?

Didn't they actually create a vulnerability by trying to force an install of Safari on Windows boxen?

Except that you just said you had to have Windows Media Player or the MP3 player's proprietary software. That's a limit to me.

Exactly. I've had enough secondhand experience with iTunes to know that I don't like it (and even my mom's getting fed up).

[RootedPhoenix]

And windows media player is part of windows it's built in to the OS-itunes forces you to have both itunes and quicktime-I never used QT ever but still had to have it or itunes didn't work at all-you can't get them as separate programs-so for the few websites that use QT I can't use them as I'm not filling my computer up with bloatware.

iTunes is built in to the Mac OS, as Windows Media Player is on Windows.

My point was that it would be better for there not to be a middle man program at all, which both of those are. If you have no middleman program, then that increases the chance of universal usability.

[jackfaire]

iTunes is built in to the Mac OS, as Windows Media Player is on Windows.

My point was that it would be better for there not to be a middle man program at all, which both of those are. If you have no middleman program, then that increases the chance of universal usability.

If I want to convert songs FROM iTunes to another program I cannot nor can it share songs with another program. Windows Media Player doesn't lock down songs like that I can use them in multiple programs say for example my MP3 player comes with a program of it's own.

And if my MP3 player dies I am not stuck having to go back and buy another one from the same company if there is a better MP3 released by a different company.

If I had itunes and an ipod I would be perpetually stuck using the same program and same company's player.

[HYHYBT]

Only if you bought DRM'ed music from the iTunes store. It *will* convert anything else.

[Fashion Lad!]

where is the "attitude" of mac users?

Try here

and [URL="http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/editorial-apple-smugness-and-you/"]here[/

It really is on both sides. Like I said, I personally get flack for owning a Mac. Apparently Windows is **SO** much better. I like Windows just fine. I'm loving Windows 7. But, I always have to laugh when my MacBook Pro is on hour 6 of battery life with usually 1-2 hours left and my classmates have already had to have their laptops plugged in for most of the class. I also like the fact that it takes my laptop about 30 seconds to go from completely powered down to completely up and running waiting for my first program to be started. Takes about 15 seconds for it to shut down. Mac OS X is a lean, mean OS.

But, don't be naive in thinking that all Mac users are smug and we're the only ones degrading anyone for owning anything other than a Mac because that's just flat out not true.

And I know you're argument is going to be about just finding smugness. However; when I asked where is the smugness, I meant "how are Mac users anymore smug than windows or Linux users?"

[muses_nightmare]

I personally find that some Mac users insist on bashing on Windows whenever they get a chance. One of my instructors even said something along the lines of "macs are prettier", I disagreed verbally and he was kind of like "oh they're not are they?"

I don't actually think that Macs are prettier, Personally my little compact acer is prettier (given my monitor is a hunk of junk) and I really really want one of the gorgeous touch screen computers they're coming out with lately. I also find that things like the keyboard and mouse on macs try to be "compact", we use these really flat keyboards in most of my classes and I find them damn near impossible to type on because they're not made for adult sized hands.

I use both systems at school (I think that they use XP at the school, and I have no idea what Mac OS they use), I have vista on my home computer, my boyfriend has Windows 7 on his. I can say that I prefer Windows, since I find that the Macs at school have more problems with freezing, randomly not booting up etc.

All that being said, I own an Ipod. The thing is 3 years old at least now. It's one of the 30g video ones. I bought it because at the time in my town there weren't really a lot of options for that size. I did have a sony Jellybean, but it was a 1g, and really who can fit anything onto 1g! I do rather like my ipod, but I don't know if I'd buy another one when I do have to replace it. I've heard that the batteries aren't supposed to be good past 2 years or something like that, but mine's still going strong, well it doesn't last quite as long as it used to, but it goes for a good few hours.

[Boozy]

And I know you're argument is going to be about just finding smugness. However; when I asked where is the smugness, I meant "how are Mac users anymore smug than windows or Linux users?"

You're right; if someone wants to be smug, they'll find a reason. If they happen to like Apple, then that's what they'll focus on. Same is true of PC users.

The whole thing is baffling to me. My iPod is not a symbol of how "cool" I am. It can't be. The only thing required of me to obtain that iPod was to work a few hours at my retail job and then exchange the money earned for goods and services. This is not the hallmark of awesome. There is nothing devastatingly cool about this transaction.

My purchases say nothing about me as a person, and I'm annoyed when someone assumes me to be smug because of something I own. I'm just as annoyed when someone thinks I'm cool because of something I own. (If some hipster saw the music selection on my iPod, they would be horrified. )

[lordlundar]

IMO, you've bolded the wrong bit. You've skipped over the fact that they said that they were more upset with themselves about it. As in they were upset that such a thing had occurred at all, and that it was their fault.

And yet, as opposed to accepting full responsibility for their own screw up (because these were infected at the time they left the distributor), they go and throw an insult to Microsoft first. Guess they can't help themselves, after all, they're apple, it can't be totally their fault, huh?

That's the main issue I have with Apple and a number of users. It's not enough to have the product, they have to bash the competitor every step of the way. When, since the "think different" ads of theirs, have you seen an Apple ad that didn't insult PC (ie Windows) users? Yet, when Microsoft fires back in an ad that hits them in a spot they can't refute, they start screaming? So if Apple bashes Windows systems for years, it's funny, but when Microsoft finally retaliates, it's offensive? Right, hypocrisy noted.

[HYHYBT]

When, since the "think different" ads of theirs, have you seen an Apple ad that didn't insult PC (ie Windows) users?

There might be some for all I know, but I've never once seen an Apple ad that insulted PC users. Systems, yes.

[muses_nightmare]

Don't the Mac ads generally lump PC users together as the "boring, business related" crew? Whereas the Macs are the cool people with their video editing software etc.

Kind of the whole point of the ads, calling anyone who runs windows a moron for doing it.