that everything with a docking station is proprietary

[Boozy]

When, since the "think different" ads of theirs, have you seen an Apple ad that didn't insult PC (ie Windows) users?

"Attack ads" are to be expected by any company whose product is positioned second in the market. You see this kind of thing with most companies who dominate the one/two positions. The best example would be the Cola Wars of the 1980's between Pepsi and Coke. Pepsi had second-place market share in the US, so their ads attacked Coke.

Since the vast majority of the market belongs to PC/Windows users, Apple needs to make a case for its product by making favourable comparisons to the leading product. There aren't enough new users out there to ensure profitability. They need to convince people to switch.

And then there's the fact that computers are different than say, laundry soap. Let's say Tide holds the number one spot, and Sunlight number two. Sunlight could convince people to switch brands with nothing more than a coupon. Laundry soap is cheap, is not a long-term commitment, and there's no learning curve. One soap is used the same as the other. Not so with computers. It means that the advertising needs to be far more pointed.

[lordlundar]

*sigh* Taking a part of my post out of context is bad form. I know the attack ads exist, I know it's not anything new, and I know it's about getting larger market share, but my point isn't that. It's that they have been bashing Windows for years, even insulting it when there's a fuck up of their own doing, yet when Microsoft fires back in a non-stupid way, they bitch and whine and threaten legal action. Not being able to take even a tiny bit of what they dish out.

It's the double standard that they are exhibiting that I have the issue with.

[Boozy]

*sigh* Taking a part of my post out of context is bad form.

If I took part of your post out of context, it was merely a misunderstanding. I guess I failed to understand your point.

I get it now, since you've expounded a bit.

[BrenDAnn]

I know it's awkward to revive a thread buried 3 pages into a forum, but I have to speak out on this. I myself have a 2GB Sansa Fuse, which I have expanded with an 8 GB Micro SD card. I got the player as a gift for my oldest nephew, but his maternal grandparents got him a better one before I could give it to him, so I kept it. I have to say I love, love, LOVE my mp3 player! As for iTunes/DRM issues, no problems there as I have a protected music converter program installed on my computer that changes all the songs to mp3s. Yes, I had to download the program (and pay), but it was well worth it. Also, if you go to amazon.com and type in <<insert name of your mp3 player here>> accessories, you'd be surprised the results you'll get. I was never impressed by iPods, but I'd never be a snob and tell someone not to get one either. Guess I'm just that type of person.

[tabbyblack13]

I have a Sansa Fuze and before that I had another Sansa. These units have worked well for me and withstands a lot of abuse. What I don't get is why ipod is so much better. I know that when the Ipod first came out it was the most durable and reliable mp3 player out there. Now a lot of other companies have come out with dependable units.

Right now I think that anything Ipod related is mostly for show and you can get a reliable mp3 player for less.

[HYHYBT]

Not sure of that, either: when I first got an iPod, I kept it hidden. Not because I was afraid it would be stolen, but because I thought people would think I'd gotten it for show. I actually *like* iTunes best, though admittedly I haven't bothered trying anything else lately. I'd been using iTunes regularly for a couple of years before they started selling music through it, and used to connect my laptop to the car's cassette deck. The only reason I originally got a separate music player was that my then-new car had slicker seats than the old one; every time I hit the brakes, my computer hit the floor, which didn't seem like a recipe for its having a long life. And since I already liked both Apple's computers and their music software, I probably would have looked at their music player first even if I *hadn't* already also bought protected music, which I couldn't have played on anything else without burning it to CD, reimporting it, and then filling in all the track names, etc manually.

Which also relates to the original point of the thread: sure, they benefit from all the iPod accessories being useless with other mp3 players, but then even leaving that out there are good reasons for not using, say, a standard USB plug. When iPods first came out, USB was too slow, and Firewire plugs are too thick. For that matter, I don't *think* they had the mini USB plugs then either, so the B plug would have been thicker than what it was connecting even if it had been fast enough to use. And of course even if you ignore that the proprietary plug helps lock out competition, at this point a lot of iPods are bought by repeat customers, and making the new products incompatible with the accessories those customers already have discourages upgrading.

(This is also why I haven't bought Snow Leopard: it only works on Intel Macs, and even if it were free, the fairly minor improvements to my laptop would be outweighed by not being able to keep the same software on it and the two G4 desktops in the family.)

[MergedLoki]

I hear ya. I have a sony mp3 player with just a USB plug in. and it works fine. no additional software needed to load it up with songs etc.

but... I cannot find a friggin pair of portable speakers/docking station that just works with a simple USB jack.

OR the ones i've found are disgustingly expensive and i don't need em that badly lol.

but yea everythigns catered to ipod this and apple that.

[Dreamstalker]

While I'd love an actual docking station, I'm not enamored of the idea enough to futz with multiple adapters/gender changers to get it to work (the result would also be too unwieldy and defeat the original purpose of a dock). So I got a $10 "cellphone beanbag chair" from ThinkGeek so it can sit upright and still be connected to the computer/speakers/whatever.