people getting tattoos they don't understand

[AdminAssistant]

It could be a picture of a piece of bacon, or maybe a lamp, or a doorknob, and if they like it, then what's the problem?

One of the reasons I love Duff Goldman (Ace of Cakes guy)? He has a tattoo of a whisk. On his arm. Because he's a baker. Awesome.

[RootedPhoenix]

the problem comes from co-opting part of a culture you don't understand-the people getting the spiderweb tattoos is a perfect example-it means you killed a minority in prison. It's offensive, you may as well just tattoo "I'm an attention whore" on your forehead, yes people should be able to do what they want-but at the same time it's not "all about them".

The situations with the spiderweb tattoos are why you research stuff first. However, I don't see why someone having a tattoo on their arm of the kanji for, say, "flower bud" is the same kind of thing as someone having a spiderweb tattoo just because the tattoo is Japanese and they are not. Please don't tell me that there's no way, in this world of the internet, to do any research or ask any questions to discover what significance "flower bud" might have in Japan, beyond the obvious.

Secondly, why can't I understand something within a culture without being a part of the culture? Do you really have to know every little twist and turn in a culture's ways just to have the ability to know what a flower bud is and understand what it might mean in Japanese culture? Why can't I have a special connection to things in Japan without actually being Japanese? Maybe I have my own reasons to feel connected to Japan. Maybe I want to honor those feelings by my tattoo choice.

it was also my understanding that part of the reason for getting a tattoo for some people was because it looked cool. (I could be wrong, as I'm one of those folks who doesn't want one, cool or otherwise.)

If the tattoo looking cool is part of the attraction, then it makes all the sense in the world to find something that looks cool to you, doesn't it? I know that I'd want a tattoo that looked cool to me, because I'm the one that has to live with it on my body for the rest of my life.

Of course, I would want to do my research and make sure I didn't wind up on Hanzi Smatter (or a similar site) and looking like an exceptional sort of moron for not doing proper research. It's on my body for life, after all.

[BlaqueKatt]

Of course, I would want to do my research and make sure I didn't wind up on Hanzi Smatter (or a similar site)

Even if one were to find a well-researched Chinese name or idiom one year and get it tattooed, the meaning may change the next year. And some characters change meaning when linked with another-so you'd have to not only find the translations of the character in both manderin and japanese, but also grammar-it is not that simple.

interesting that you bring up hanzi smatter-he holds the exact same views as I do

He also explains that Hanzi, Kana, and Kanji are used by both Chinese and Japanese and can man totally different things, or can mean something totally different than the literal translation ie. slang usage-which without knowing the culture.....it's not really something you can look up-it's not like there's a verson of the urban dictionary for every language....

his take can be found here and
here

and another take on it here-same thing

[RecoveringKinkoid]

And here.

Personally, I don't know why what someone wants to put on their body should annoy anyone else.

Is it dumb? I dunno. I see some dude walking around with a tattoo of a chinese character, maybe it says something embarassing, maybe it doesn't. Maybe he reads Mandarin. I know I don't, so it certainly is not offensive to me.

I have other things to worry about.

[BlaqueKatt]

So now I'm an attention whore?

point out where I said you specifically-I was referring to the spiderweb tattoo getters

I have said in three posts that while I am not a part of the culture, I would not get something that I didn't understand. And a tattoo on my shoulderblade is the same thing as dressing in full Kemetic priest garb? How?

simple-it is attention seeking behavior-humans are curious creatures by nature-getting a tattoo that no one would understand all but guarantees you will get tons of people asking about it-ask someone with a Kanji tattoo what it means and 9 times out of 10 you'll get a long drawn out explanation of how "spiritual" they are and what it means to them, and how they got it to commemorate the birth of their fifth hamster fluffy...

My five tattoos are simple, easily hidden and I've never had anyone ask anything further than where I got them done. They do mean something personal to me, but the meaning stays personal because I don't have 65,464,632,164 people asking me what they mean.

I ALSO said that it isn't because it looks cool. I doubt many people would think of heiroglyphics, other than an ankh, as "cool". It means something to me.

42,000 results for "heiroglyphic tattoo" in a GIS-40 pages of them on eviltattoo.com
from free tattoo designs "Egyptian tattoos, like many other tattoo designs from mythology or ancient cultures, are growing in popularity."

Yes, americans may be the only ones to do it with tattoos, but look at how many shirts are written in english in Japan, for example.

and they're usually translated wrong/gibberish and get made fun of-also you can take a shirt off or not wear it in public

[Kalli]

Blaquekatt, I would like to see you address the question of whether or not you have anything in your house from any culture other than "your own", and if so, why you feel this differs from a tattoo.

[BlaqueKatt]

Blaquekatt, I would like to see you address the question of whether or not you have anything in your house from any culture other than "your own", and if so, why you feel this differs from a tattoo.

you meant this question that was expressly not directed at me:

The problem with that line of thinking, BlaqueKatt, is that is shouldn't stop with just language or tattoos. Do you have a ming vase, or a replica, in your house (not you, personally)?

the only thing I have in my house that is from a culture not my own(I'm assuming I'm considered American-but I'll get to that in a moment) was a gift from my ex-fiance, it's a matryoshka doll-however I do have family in the former Soviet Union, and do speak some Russian due to having been engaged and preparing to live over there-his visa expired and he had to leave, I couldn't obtain a visa or passport-so he broke it off.

I had a ring with an egyptian scarab in it but I gave it to a friend from egypt to take it back where it belonged-AFAIK he did.

I have family in Denmark, Germany, Russia, and Sicily(I have four half-brothers there)-I'm first generation "off the boat" on my father's side and third generation on my mother's side-in other words I'm only American by virtue of the soil I happened to be born on. My husband is 100% German, my son is everything I am plus Irish and Cherokee from his father(not my current husband). My wedding band is inscribed in Latin, however I am Sicilian(formerly part of Rome), and can read Latin fairly well thanks to the Roman Catholic priest that still delivered Latin Mass and was willing to teach any of us in my conformation class that so desired. Yay I can read a 2000 year old dead language-not a particularly useful skill....

I speak/read/write English(american dialect) fluently, French I can read and understand more than I can speak, but I can get by pretty well(took 3 years in HS), speak enough German and Russian to get by but can't read or write either one. Currently working on German, and will work on Russian more once I'm better at German.

[powerboy]

I just don't understand why someone has a right to tell someone else, what they and cannot do with that persons body. If someone, wants a design or word on their body. Then so fucking what.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I know, that's what I'm saying. Maybe I'm not near bored enough to think that this is any kind of issue.

[Greenday]

The only problems I have with tattoos is when someone gets something "because it looks cool". For all intents and purposes, tattoos are pretty much permanent. How "cool" is it going to look once your skin doesn't look so young or if you gain weight and stretch it out, etc. etc.? It will not look cool for ages to come (though I believe my grandfather's tattoos did). Get something with actual meaning to it so later on in life, you either won't regret it or will have a respectable reason for it.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I agree with you, I have seem some nasty tattoos on aging skin that looked like a cross between a bird poopy and cancer.

However, I have no problem with that.

I really don't. It's neither my skin nor is it my tattoo. So I REALLY DON'T have a problem with it.

[AdminAssistant]

And the thing is, how can you tell from first glance whether or not a person has put in the adequate research? A friend of mine has a kanji tattoo (I can't remember what it means). She also happens to be a Japanese cultural historian who speaks fluent contemporary and classical Japanese. But, because she herself is not Japanese she can't get a kanji tattoo?

What about an American who is also a Zen Buddhist? Can you tell from a glance if someone is or isn't?

I don't get it.

The beautiful thing about America is the vast amount of multi-culturalism. There are bound to be people who are interested in other cultures for some reason or another. If we were all limited to our native language or culture, shit would get really boring really quickly. I have a variety of gifts from Japan and Russia on display in my apartment, and I love them. Sure as hell not going to send them back, "where they belong." They're mine. They belong with me.

As far as "looking cool", if I'm getting something drawn on me permanently, yes, it will have deep spiritual meeting. But it better also look cool as hell! It can be both, dontcha know.

[Kalli]

OK. I don't know quite how to convey this apart from to make a small disclaimer that I have absolutely no problem with you, Blaquekatt, and in fact quite like you from your posts, but here goes:

I think it's incredibly arrogant to demand that someone have a profound and intimate background with a culture or language in order to use/incorporate/pay tribute to it in their personal style.

There have been a couple of valid points raised about assuming that someone with a tattoo in a different language doesn't have a special connection to that culture, how can you possibly know that without knowing the person? But as far as I'm concerned, this point is completely irrelevant.

The important thing is that, frankly, it's none of your business what someone puts on their own body. I agree that a little research as to the history of a popular tattoo (like the spiderweb elbow) would be prudent, but in the end, international culture is borrowed from all the time, everywhere around the world, in every media, every day. It's global public domain. Telling someone they're not allowed to use heiroglyphs for tattoos if they are not egyptian is simply sticking your nose where it doesn't belong for no good reason.

(again, the above is my point of view, not a universal absolute or anything like that. And I'm not out to get Blaquekatt.)

[powerboy]

I think that if it is not harming you, then you need to keep out of other peoples business. So fucking what if they want a certain tattoo. Let them. You can't exactly tell others what to do with their bodies

[Slytovhand]

Ok, how about if someone decides to get an image of the Christian's Jesus on the cross as an image, but has absolutely no interest in Christianity.. they just think the picture is cool?

What about people who dedice the Nazi Swastika is cool?

What annoys me, in a similar vein, is 'Dream Catchers' - cos 'they're cool!'... by people who have absolutely no understanding of the spiritual significance behind them. Sure, we can say 'so what', but what then happens if people start doing it to your culturally significant icons??

I don't think ppl should go randomly emblazoning themselves with something 'because it looks cool', but be prepared to cop some flack if it goes badly for you...


ETA: This is "Things I hate"... not Clash of Cultures.