people getting tattoos they don't understand

[jackfaire]

offensive to Jaweh as he made humans in his own image-altering that image is saying "god did a bad job" to them.

Wasn't it the Jews that came up with circumcision? Wouldn't that be altering the image?

[KabeRinnaul]

Katt also seems to quite clearly be saying that, if it isn't part of your culture, you shouldn't work with it at all. Hence having had a scarab ring but, not having any Egyptian connections, having it returned to Egypt "where it belongs". Katt is welcome to have that opinion, but you're welcome to disagree.

But wait, does this mean I have to give up reading manga? Can I still listen to Blümchen? How about food, am I still allowed to have tacos? Am I allowed to play God of War without being Greek? Is the number zero allowed for non-Arabs?

But my family does have at least some French background, so I guess I can, um... eat inedible crusty bread? Look down on my neighbors? Mispronounce the letter U?

[the_std]

Really

if you want courage tattooed on your body why not just pick out some fancy script-don't pull something from another language to be "cool" and "spiritual"-it's pretentious at best and can be downright offensive to some groups

Thinking something from another culture is cool or pretty or worth having on your body is hardly pretentious. Just because you don't understand every nuance of the phrase or the entire history behind it does not mean you shouldn't be allowed to do it. I use phrases all the time in my native language that I don't fully understand! It was only recently that I learned that "gypped" was offensive to gypsies. Everything offends someone. Not doing it just because there is someone out there that it might offend is pretty much the stupidest reasoning I have ever heard.

It is not their business, nor is it yours, what other people put on their body.

[Slytovhand]

I don't see why people can't share and enjoy each other's cultures.

There's an answer to that, and it vaguely relates to this topic.

Theft.

There are culturally significant icons and relics of various societies currently strewn across the planet - particularly Europe and the USA - which were taken (ie, stolen) from the native peoples/lands. Due to wars, murders, invasions and other nasty pieces of work that humanity has inflicted on each other, that has left a fairly sour taste in the mouths of those natives.... and now, people want to steal their cultural symbols as well...!

So, it's not 'sharing', it's 'you will give'ing.

Remember, at one time in our history, such symbols and icons actually meant something... now, everything is on the net, and very few things have much value - spiritual, emotional, or cultural.

I'm not as extreme as (what I interpreted) BK's OP to be, but if you are going to take on something like a tattoo of something which is relevant to another culture, at least have some connection with it... at least look the damn thing up, or have an interest other than just 'that looks cool'.

[muses_nightmare]

I completely disagree with the sentiment of "you're not part of that culture so you can't use anything from that culture". If you choose to segregate yourself that way that's fine, but I'm still going to be practicing the Ancient Egyptian religion, I'm still going to have symbols of that culture that faith in my house. Is that wrong because I'm not "Egyptian"? I don't think so.

The only thing I do agree with you on is that people shouldn't be getting random symbols on their body without knowing what they mean, or at least having a reason for it besides "it looks cool". It bothers me to no end when people talk about wanting Kemetic Tattoos (or rather Egyptian tattoos) but don't bother to research what the correct names are for the netjeru (gods), and will say they want a tattoo of "Isis"or something of the sort when they actually mean Aset. Then again that can get into a whole other issue.

What it boils down to is if someone chooses to get something tattooed on their body that is their perogative. You can dislike it all you want, but it's their body.

[Nyoibo]

But wait, does this mean I have to give up reading manga?

Well at least I'm safe for that one.

I'm not as extreme as (what I interpreted) BK's OP to be, but if you are going to take on something like a tattoo of something which is relevant to another culture, at least have some connection with it... at least look the damn thing up, or have an interest other than just 'that looks cool'.

I'd agree with that.

[Boozy]

As far as the Egyptian thing goes: The race of people we know as the ancient Egyptians has long been assimilated. Unless people of other cultures start incorporating hieroglyphs and the like into their own culture, the symbols of ancient Egypt will be relegated to academia (as they have been for years).

As such, I don't think hieroglyphs and the like are a very good example for either side. It's difficult to offend someone for adopting a culture that they themselves have had to adopt.

[Lace Neil Singer]

There's an answer to that, and it vaguely relates to this topic.

Theft.

There are culturally significant icons and relics of various societies currently strewn across the planet - particularly Europe and the USA - which were taken (ie, stolen) from the native peoples/lands.

Ah yes, the good ol' British Museum. XD Full of stolen goods, y'know. But still a fun day out; at least, for me. XD

I'm interested in Egyptian and Norse mythology; and no, not just cuz of the porn aspect, I'm better than that. Don't believe that there is porn in those myths? Then you haven't been reading the right books.

I have some Egyptian stuff scattered round the house as well as RP characters of deities. I don't see why I shouldn't have either, just cuz I originate in England... which is itself a mix of different cultures and countries if you keep going back in history.

To get back to the tattoo thing; I don't really care, cuz it's your body not mine. However, I will still think it hilarious if you copy a Chinese character off a menu and end up with "spring roll" on your arm.

[gremcint]

too be fair if people limited themselves to tattos they understand then we'd have a whole lot of people with no tattoos at all instead.

[bunnyboy]

Which is interesting, as there is a whole movement in that body art community dedicated to reclaiming the swastika. I'm not sure what I think of it, but those people are out there.

And, IMO, I think it's silly to get a tattoo you don't understand. But if it's something you want, like, and want to have on your body forever...more power to you.

Not just in the Bod Mod comunity, but in just about every pagan community that had a traditions with it (just about every single pagan community)

Its probably due to seeing the same thing happen to parts of my husbands culture. He’s part Viking/Norse. Currently there is a gang/religion in the prison system called Odinist. It can be very hard to tell an actually religious Odin follower from a gang member because they use a lot of the same artwork and both use runes when getting tattoos. So because a gang now uses runic language in their tattoos we’re now not suppose to get one with any type of rune in it due to the association.

Ah The fun that made me decide to leave Asatru, Racialist vs Folkish vs Universalist was almost as bad as Brit Trad vs Good Ecclectic vs Fluffy Wicca.

The swastika predates the Nazi's and spiderwebs could be a nod at fate.

True, but those are usually not on the Elbow (usual place for the spiderweb prison tat.

I completely disagree with the sentiment of "you're not part of that culture so you can't use anything from that culture". If you choose to segregate yourself that way that's fine, but I'm still going to be practicing the Ancient Egyptian religion, I'm still going to have symbols of that culture that faith in my house. Is that wrong because I'm not "Egyptian"? I don't think so.

Part of my problem with some of these is that some of it is Cultural appropriation, so while i might get certain tats I'm planning in Greek (Lord's Prayer) or Italian (First few lines of the Prayer of St Francis) I wouldn't say.... get some random phrase in Devanagari since as much as I admire Siddhartha I don't follow him.

[muses_nightmare]

I do understand being annoyed with people getting culturally important symbols because they look cool, that's just stupid, but it happens.

But say for example someone wanted to follow the First Nations belief system, or Native American or whatever you may call them, or they had a very close friend who was of those cultures and they wanted to get a tattoo symbolizing that would that be wrong too?

[DesignFox]

I couldn't care less what someone tattoos on themselves. It's their body; not mine.

I'm allowed to think they are an ass for their choice of symbolism or language, just as much as they are allowed to have it on display.

As RK said, if someone's got a Nazi Swastika emblazoned on their arm, great! I know you're not the type of person I want to associate with.

Got a bunch of pornographic tattoos? Well, I think you're a total toolbox, but hey! Thanks for the warning!

You like the Chinese symbol for "spring roll?" Who fucking cares? This isn't China (for starters)...I wouldn't know what the hell it meant, nor I'd wager, would about 90% of America...and if the Chinese want to laugh at you...hey, great!

*shrug* I don't understand why anyone would get so bent out of shape about it. But I'm not really fanatical about anything cultural or religious. As long as you aren't doing any harm to me- you go your way and I'll go mine.

BTW I had no idea that a spiderweb over the elbow *meant* anything associated with violence. Interesting tidbit...So, now that I was curious, I poked around the internet.

Yes, the spider web (particularly over the left elbow, or on the neck) initially had connections with gangs, Aryans and other not so nice people...today it's meaning has changed drastically, especially depending on which country you are in. It doesn't mean what it did 70 years ago, and even then, it didn't mean the same thing across the board. As with all things cultural, literal or religious, shit keeps on changing.

I'm pretty sure with all the people out there who have spiderwebs tattooed on their body somewhere, the gangs have changed their symbolism.

I certainly don't know anyone who has made the connection that "spiderweb = gang" in my generation.

If you want my opinion, I think some people just have to take the fun out of everything.

[Slytovhand]

But say for example someone wanted to follow the First Nations belief system, or Native American or whatever you may call them, or they had a very close friend who was of those cultures and they wanted to get a tattoo symbolizing that would that be wrong too?

Since you picked a very specific example, I'll try for a similar response.

If someone is that really connected, and was really wanting to be that connected, wouldn't it make sense for such a person to do something about getting in touch with those First Nations people directly, and find their stance/attitude on the idea??

(maybe I'm just expecting someone to be serious, rather than pretentious??)

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Oh, seriously. Is it really all that different than hanging a picture on a wall or? I mean, at the end of the day, it's just an image you like for whatever reason.

Do I really need to, say, seek permission from, say, Ireland if I want to display knotwork on my wedding band? Or permission from the Navaho if I want to wear Navaho silver? Or permission from World War II vets if I am particularly fond of bomber nose art and want to display it?

Let's go back to the idea of the athiest wearing a tattoo of a crucifix. Does he really need to get permission for that? And if we determine that he does (in my opinion, he does not) who does he get it from?

[Wingates_Hellsing]

The idea of getting permission is really off-base, I think. But assuming it wasn't, I'd say any person following that religion/lifestyle/service would be sufficient.

I also don't think you really have to be religiously attached to something to display it. I myself, if I were to get a tattoo, might use runic writing (more out of my attachment to space wolves in WH40K than actual Norse culture.)

As long as I have a real interest in it because of what it is and am not just getting something random (I would make sure it actually says something I'd want it to say), isn't that enough?