God Damn General Education Requirements!

[Dreamstalker]

Because people aren't learning this stuff in high school.

No, they aren't. I had to go to community college for a few years after high school to get my GPA to the point a four-year school would accept (long story short, it was in the toilet due to some teachers not knowing how to "deal with" my learning disability). I daresay I learned more there than I did in high school, especially when it came to history. The college even had a Critical Thinking course (in which the professor liked me because my mind works differently).

Luckily those credits were able to transfer and wipe out a good number of requirements so I was able to graduate on time.

[blas87]

I already did learn physics, chemistry, biology, and all that other bullshit in high school. I will not be taking another class like that, as long as I have to pay for it, because they don't pertain to what I want to do.

[KabeRinnaul]

The main problem with Gen Ed requirements is that what you get from the course depends greatly on the teacher. Now, this is true of pretty much any class, but I think it goes double for things outside your major, simply because within your major, you can just learn from the book if you have a useless teacher. I'm a Business Admin major (hopefully for just another three days, at which point I'll be a Business Admin graduate), and I'd still have learned double-entry bookkeeping and accrual formulas even if my teachers did nothing. I didn't really need instructor input for business writing or economics. If I needed to know, it was in the book.

On the other hand, someone taking any of this from outside the business major would be better served by learned why things are done these ways, and how it could apply to them. You need a decent teacher for that. Similarly, for my GE courses - A bad history course teaches you a list of names and dates. A good one teaches you to research and analyze information. A bad english or literature course teaches you some stories and authors. A good one teaches you good written communication and how to construct a good argument.

And I tried, but I can't really think of a use for Art, Music, or Theater outside of their majors beyond some nebulous concept of showing us culture. Specific sciences I don't see much merit in, either. A general "science concepts" course, maybe.

Aside from that, I might argue that everyone should take a basic Statistics course, and that no one should ever take Philosophy.

[AdminAssistant]

And I tried, but I can't really think of a use for Art, Music, or Theater outside of their majors beyond some nebulous concept of showing us culture.

There's a book called The Necessity of Theater by Paul Woodruff, who is actually a professor in philosophy, that we use for the Intro to Theatre class that non-majors take. The basic argument of the book is that theatre promotes good "watching" and can lead to more ethical behavior - which is basically an extension of what Aristotle said in The Poetics.

[linguist]

There's a book called The Necessity of Theater by Paul Woodruff, who is actually a professor in philosophy, that we use for the Intro to Theatre class that non-majors take. The basic argument of the book is that theatre promotes good "watching" and can lead to more ethical behavior - which is basically an extension of what Aristotle said in The Poetics.

dr. woodruff is an amazing man. i was lucky enough to have him as dean of my program when i first started college, and spent quite a bit of time talking with him and listening to him lecture.

[AdminAssistant]

dr. woodruff is an amazing man. i was lucky enough to have him as dean of my program when i first started college, and spent quite a bit of time talking with him and listening to him lecture.

Holy Cow! Yeah, that book is absolutely amazing.

Umm...Hook 'em?

[KitterCat]

Colleges were instituted as places of learning, not just a major career but knowledge that was/is considered essential to be considered well learned. It use to be standard in many colleges for people to learn a second language, if not more. Its wasn’t because it was necessary for the degree you were going for, but because it made you more educationally well rounded.

It also use to be if you didn’t want to go to a college you went into a trade or what would be a technical school. There use to be no problem with this, after all not everyone is meant for college, some people do just fine taking an apprenticeship or tech-school. Some people are fine just taking certificate courses. However we seem to have developed to problem that unless you’ve got that nice sheet of paper saying you’ve graduated from such and such college, your now considered to be only worth flipping burgers. Take a look at CS site- how many stories are simply because some person claming to have a college degree is better than the person helping them?

In grades K-12 a huge amount of problems have arisen because to put it bluntly the teachers don’t freaking teach anymore. Its almost impossible to fire one whose incompetent due to Teachers Unions. Public schools also seem to teach to the lowest denominator. TU seem to be more concerned about how much money they can get from state/federal government, that they’ve lost site to the fact they are suppose to be providing an education to students, not a daycare for the parents.

People complain that No Child Left Behind was one of the worst things in acted, but think on this, State General Education standards were around long before NCLB. Those standards are things that should have already been gone through by the teachers and yet they still couldn’t be meet. And we’re talking basics, reading, writing, arithmetic, basic history. We’re not talking brain science here, we’re talking basics, but I’d be willing to bet everyone here can remember at least one kid who graduated high school and couldn’t read beyond a 6th grade level - if that. Maybe if the teachers focused a little bit more on the education they should be giving their students to begin with they wouldn’t have to worry about if little Johnny and Susie know how to fill in a circle.

You want to know why colleges have to put you through their own tests to find out if your ready for actual college courses, take a look at what you actually learned in public schools.

*Disclaimer- I’m perfectly willing to admit that my grammar, spelling and at times word usage is incorrect, but at least I’ve been trying to fix the problem. I’ve also learned more through my own studies than I was ever taught in a public school.

[Rageaholic]

It also use to be if you didn’t want to go to a college you went into a trade or what would be a technical school. There use to be no problem with this, after all not everyone is meant for college, some people do just fine taking an apprenticeship or tech-school. Some people are fine just taking certificate courses. However we seem to have developed to problem that unless you’ve got that nice sheet of paper saying you’ve graduated from such and such college, your now considered to be only worth flipping burgers. Take a look at CS site- how many stories are simply because some person claming to have a college degree is better than the person helping them?

This is the problem. Even retail jobs are asking about college education and all that. It's no longer as simple as "going to a trade school". If you don't have that degree, you won't have many options. It's all based on that BS psychology that a college degree makes you a better person. It's the same BS about judging an applicant based on clothing choice. A lot of the time, stuff that shouldn't even be relevent to the job determines the fate of that person's employment.

Someone can still be skilled while never having gone to college. I've learned a lot from college, but most of my learning has been from real life experience, not textbooks. And what if someone doesn't have the money for college? Why should college have the monopoly on experience? It's just so unfair.

Besides, I feel 'well rounded' enough. I mentioned all the courses I took, I don't think I should have to take any more just so I can get a decent job a couple years down the road. Even if you do believe in GE requirements, you have to admit, it can get excessive. There's really no need for there to be TWO anthropology courses, and 4 different humanities courses. That's almost like an entire different major there.

[McDreidel09]

Maybe if the teachers focused a little bit more on the education they should be giving their students to begin with they wouldn’t have to worry about if little Johnny and Susie know how to fill in a circle.

It's kinda hard when you don't have the resources you need to teach children because not everyone is good at taking tests or some students don't try. I am really sick of teachers being crapped on by people. It's not their fault that they have to focus so much on the standardized testing. How about some of you be teachers for a frikken week and see how you can deal with it. I bet you can't.

NCLB is a bunch of bullshit. Not all kids are good at taking tests. Not all of the kids try. To take away resources from the kids is also bullshit.

Also, teachers are taking so much time disciplining the kids who really don't want to be there and disrupt the class. Every minute spent disciplining one child, is a minute taken away from the other kids to learn.

[linguist]

Umm...Hook 'em?

hook 'em indeed!

[AdminAssistant]

It's the same BS about judging an applicant based on clothing choice.

I have two equally qualified job applicants. One is smartly and neatly dressed in business attire. The other is wearing wrinkled khakis, a t-shirt, and ratty tennis shoes. Sorry, I'm going to hire the one who is more professional. That's not BS.

And what if someone doesn't have the money for college?

There are a lot of ways to pay for college, if you're willing to look. Pell grants, scholarships, student loans, etc.

There's really no need for there to be TWO anthropology courses, and 4 different humanities courses. That's almost like an entire different major there.

Oh, please. A major consists of approximately 50 credit hours of class. 18 hours barely qualifies as a minor. I feel your pain, but I have to call out your hyperbole.

hook 'em indeed!

One of our students asked why Woodruff used so many football examples; when our Professor explained what school he taught at, it made perfect sense!

[linguist]

One of our students asked why Woodruff used so many football examples; when our Professor explained what school he taught at, it made perfect sense!

we are kind of insanely proud of our football team. rose bowl bound again!

[AdminAssistant]

we are kind of insanely proud of our football team. rose bowl bound again!

Well, at least someone can be!! But now we have a new head coach and basketball season is in full swing. Rock Chalk!

[jackfaire]

There are a lot of ways to pay for college, if you're willing to look. Pell grants, scholarships, student loans, etc.

Working your butt off so that you can have the money to go when your 35!

(being serious that is my current estimate but dang it I will get there!)

[Slytovhand]

I have two equally qualified job applicants. One is smartly and neatly dressed in business attire. The other is wearing wrinkled khakis, a t-shirt, and ratty tennis shoes. Sorry, I'm going to hire the one who is more professional. That's not BS.

More to the point, don't you want the one who actually likes they give a damn, and actually wants to be there, rather than someone who is just going because they have to fulfill unemployment requirements? (or, cos their mum told them to go?) My last job was like that - they kept hiring kids who came in in t-shirts, shorts, ripped jeans, thongs (Aussie variety!), etc, and lo and behold - had a massive staff turn-over and incredibly bad customer service skills!

and that no one should ever take Philosophy

Why? You don't think people should actually learn that their view is sometimes not the only one, but also their stance is unsound? To learn that opposing viewpoints might actually have far more merit than their own? Or to actually learn to defend in a real way their own opinions? And also, to possibly find out that what they've been thinking isn't all that new and novel? If it's done right, it does change people's attitudes!