"cyclists shold stay off the roads"

[BlaqueKatt]

Inspired by this thread with all the cyclist bashing


no they shouldn't it's not safe

"sidewalk cycling is almost twice as dangerous as cycling in the street, and cycling against the traffic on the sidewalk is over four times as dangerous as cycling in the street."

Less than 10% of cycle-vehicle accidents are caused by cyclists-proven fact

common Myths about cycling/cyclists
including:
Myth: Bicyclists Break Laws. They Don't Deserve Respect.
Myth: Bicycling With Traffic Is Dangerous And Stupid.
Myth: Car Drivers Pay Taxes, Bicyclists Don't.
Myth: Roads Are Primarily For Cars.
Myth: Cars Were Here First

actually without bikes you would not have roads and the auto would not have gained it's present status-see good roads movement
"The Good Roads Movement occurred in the United States between 1880 and 1916. Advocates for improved roads led by bicyclists turned local agitation into a national political movement."

cycling is safer than driving

There are almost 3x as many bicycles produced worldwide than there are cars.


I'm getting sick of people claiming cyclists have "entitlement issues" when in fact it's pretty much the opposite-let's take a common agitation from CS

Person A is in line ringing up and paying for their groceries at a SCO
Person B is behind them huffing and puffing "because they're taking so long"

Person B has the issue right? Because person B should've planned better and person A isn't doing anything wrong.

now person A is a cyclist legally exercising his or her right to use the roadway for transportation, obeying all applicable traffic laws.

Person B is a motorist getting huffy honking their horn (and may be tempted to violate the law by overtaking illegally) because person A is "taking too long"

Now it's person A with the issue for some reason-almost exact same situation-what changed? Person A still isn't doing anything wrong.

Lawful, Vehicular Cyclists will merge and take the full lane when approaching narrow lanes or any possible hazard. This rarely slows motorists more than 20-30 seconds. Traffic law never requires cyclists to "squeeze" over. It is unlawful for motorists to "squeeze" past, threaten or endanger cyclists in any way. "Squeezing" Causes Accidents. Share the lane only if there's safe space. Wait Your Turn-we learned this in kindergarten.


please read this article before commenting-it deals with inherent discrimination towards cyclists as a minority group. If you don't believe it exists, ask yourself how many times you've heard, "stupid cyclist deserved to get killed/harassed for their actions(legally riding in the road)" and replace cyclist with any other minority group....

and if you like read this one as well

and this from the US Dept of Transportation

all U.S. states treat bicyclists by law as drivers of vehicles and grant them rights and responsibilities accordingly. However, the public often believes otherwise. Motorists often feel that bicyclists have no right to be on the road, especially if a bicyclist's presence requires the motorist to wait before overtaking. Because motorists who are not cyclists do not always recognize road hazards, they may believe that bicyclists unnecessarily block the road when they could be traveling further to the right.

The root of these perceptions is the idea that bicyclists are not really drivers. If bicyclists were drivers (as the law states), than the basic principle of traffic flow applies: first come, first served(my earlier analogy or the SCO). If a driver is traveling in the roadway, an approaching driver must overtake only when it is safe to. The driver has to make it easy for another driver to overtake, but only to the extent that traffic and road conditions make overtaking possible. A motorist's perception of safe passing space may be different from a cyclist's. Motorists may not understand that a cyclist may need to "block" (ride in the middle of) a travel lane when the cyclist decides that there is insufficient room for sharing a lane.

and the law here says motorists must give 3 feet of space when passing, and when I legally have to give 3 feet of space to parked cars-it's illegal to pass in the same lane-so yes I will take the lane, and ride in the middle of it for my safety-I've been clipped by a rear-view mirror from a motorist passing too close-it hurts!


motorists terrorize cyclists and pedestrians (especially when we get in their way while obeying the written laws), justify encouragement of still more and faster motor vehicle use through the construction of parking lots and highways (which bicyclists and pedestrians help pay for), and them blame cyclists and walkers for acting – out of fear for their lives -- in ways contrary to the rules of the road.


We are ignored and despised and threatened and injured and sometimes even killed because we are "different," because we are believed to "take resources" from motorists, because we are believed to be doing something childish, or worse, inherently dangerous and therefore foolish, because those who despised and threaten us are not held accountable, and because carelessness behind the wheel of a motor vehicle that results in the death of another is not considered to be a serious crime because it is "inevitable."

We are people who sometimes ride bicycles. As husbands, wives, sons, daughters, friends, neighbors, doctors, lawyers, Indian Chiefs, butchers, bakers, and candle stick makers, we don’t want to be marginalized, harassed, or put into danger because of careless or aggressive driving regardless of how frustrated drivers may be for whatever reason. We wish to be treated as if you or a loved one were on the bike. Period.

In closing:A Special Reminder To Drivers :Everywhereopen letter from the Florida Highway patrol to ALL drivers

[Lace Neil Singer]

Good points, however the cyclist isn't the one who's going to end up a red stain on the tarmac, so it's his/her duty to pay attention and sometimes give up his/her right of way. Don't think that's fair? Tough. Would you rather be right, or dead?

I ride a motorbike. I'm always ending up having to give way to dickheads cuz I put my wish to remain alive and sentinent over my right of way.

[BlaqueKatt]

Good points, however the cyclist isn't the one who's going to end up a red stain on the tarmac, so it's his/her duty to pay attention and sometimes give up his/her right of way.

you have entirely missed the point-would you say that to a car driver vs a semi?

because those who despised and threaten us are not held accountable, and because carelessness behind the wheel of a motor vehicle that results in the death of another is not considered to be a serious crime because it is "inevitable."

Don't think that's fair? Tough. Would you rather be right, or dead?

so it's ok to be a bully as long as you're bigger? I don't think so might does not make right. I abide by traffic laws, and report those that don't, our city has a number you can call to report drivers and they are mailed a citation for reckless driving. I will stand up for my rights and the rights of others rather than just "roll over" and let others trample me.

"Bicyclists, in turn, need to know that they can easily make themselves safe and respected on nearly every road"

[Rapscallion]

Interesting - do you need proof for this citation?

Rapscallion

[Lace Neil Singer]

so it's ok to be a bully as long as you're bigger? I don't think so might does not make right. I abide by traffic laws, and report those that don't, our city has a number you can call to report drivers and they are mailed a citation for reckless driving. I will stand up for my rights and the rights of others rather than just "roll over" and let others trample me.

"Bicyclists, in turn, need to know that they can easily make themselves safe and respected on nearly every road"

Better book your funeral now in that case. No, it is not OK to be a bully; however, I personally want to be alive. If you want to end up dead just so you can feel your rights are respected, go right ahead.

I will also point out that I have seen loads of cyclists with zero respect for other road users; who ride in the very centre of the lane or even the road; who refuse to pull over and allow traffic to pass; who do not wear helmets or limb protection; who run red lights and think they own the road.

[BlaqueKatt]

I will also point out that I have seen loads of cyclists with zero respect for other road users; who ride in the very centre of the lane or even the road; who refuse to pull over and allow traffic to pass; who do not wear helmets or limb protection; who run red lights and think they own the road.

hey look that was addressed in one of the links I posted*.....as an excuse for anti-cycling bigotry, cars break laws too(no seatbelts, speeding, running red lights, drunk driving, talking/texting on cell phones, need I go on?), does that mean we don't have to respect them-or is each individual only responsible for their own behavior?

Riding in the center of the lane is legal, and there is no law that requires a cyclist to allow traffic to pass.
which I already posted

Lawful, Vehicular Cyclists will merge and take the full lane when approaching narrow lanes or any possible hazard. This rarely slows motorists more than 20-30 seconds. Traffic law never requires cyclists to "squeeze" over. It is unlawful for motorists to "squeeze" past, threaten or endanger cyclists in any way. "Squeezing" Causes Accidents. Share the lane only if there's safe space. Wait Your Turn-we learned this in kindergarten.

Interesting - do you need proof for this citation?

nope-it's not considered an "official" citation-just plate# make/model/color of vehicle, description of the actions and location-no points are assessed, and if the $5 fine isn't paid nothing happens, and it's not on your driving record-it's just more of a "hey this is the law" letter, and they list what the fine would be for an "official" ticket. As such most people don't bother to report stuff, but I figure if it makes one person a more alert/better driver it's worth my time to do it.

*

common Myths about cycling/cyclists
including:
Myth: Bicyclists Break Laws. They Don't Deserve Respect.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Not in the slightest; but there is a time and place to make a protest. Safely at home, calling up the police to report a driver who nearly killed you; a good time and place. In the middle of the intersection, deliberately swerving in front of an SUV to make a point; neither the time or the place. I've ended up wallowing in the middle of the road cuz some shit for brains decided that they were going to barge thru a traffic calmer regardless of the fact that they were supposed to be giving way to me. I've also ended up standing on my brakes to stop myself hitting some stupid bitch who was more concerned with yacking on her mobile than actually looking before coming out a side turning.

True, as part of the traffic and despite being on two wheels, albiet with an engine attached, I do have rights; however, I also have an element of self preservation and unfortunately, there is very little I, or anyone else who travels on two wheels be it motorbike or pushbike, can do about the arseholes who feel they own the road. Were there more police present to monitor traffic rather than doing endless paperwork, or cameras there for other purposes than simply catching people who speed, it wouldn't be such a problem.

[BlaqueKatt]

In the middle of the intersection, deliberately swerving in front of an SUV to make a point; neither the time or the place.

cutting off another vehicle would be illegal, not "making a point"-for a car or a cycle

[Lace Neil Singer]

Could you please read the rest of my post and respond to it, rather than just nitpicking? Believe me, I have seen cyclists do that; and worse, cuz of exactly what you said here:

Lawful, Vehicular Cyclists will merge and take the full lane when approaching narrow lanes or any possible hazard. This rarely slows motorists more than 20-30 seconds. Traffic law never requires cyclists to "squeeze" over. It is unlawful for motorists to "squeeze" past, threaten or endanger cyclists in any way. "Squeezing" Causes Accidents. Share the lane only if there's safe space. Wait Your Turn-we learned this in kindergarten.

You also, I assume, learned your Green Cross Code, or something similar. While what you're saying is indeed "traffic law"; the law of common sense states that to do what you're saying, ie aggressively demand your rights, is to END UP DEAD AND SQUASHED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAMNED ROAD. Feel free to do this; just accept that we don't all want to end up being scraped off the road.

You seem to be presenting yourself as a spokesperson for all cyclists; however, you still haven't convinced me that cyclists deserve to be considered as equals on the roads to vehicles. The fact still remains; the chance of injury is more for the cyclist, so the cyclist has no choice but to relinquish some of their rights.

Let me put this in simple terms. A pedestrian has the right of way. However, most pedestrians will not walk into the middle of a busy road in order to exercise that right. It's cuz of a little something known as COMMON SENSE and also PICKING ONE'S BATTLES.

[Greenday]

You seem to be presenting yourself as a spokesperson for all cyclists; however, you still haven't convinced me that cyclists deserve to be considered as equals on the roads to vehicles. The fact still remains; the chance of injury is more for the cyclist, so the cyclist has no choice but to relinquish some of their rights.

Let me put this in simple terms. A pedestrian has the right of way. However, most pedestrians will not walk into the middle of a busy road in order to exercise that right. It's cuz of a little something known as COMMON SENSE and also PICKING ONE'S BATTLES.

The rule of physics takes precedence over the rules of societies laws. It's just plain silly to bike on really busy streets and never expect anything to ever happen, then complain about streets that are now built for cars and trucks are full of cars and trucks that are bigger than you and pose a threat to your health.

Common sense still needs to be used regardless of laws. As Lace pointed out, pedestrians have the right of way. But you'd have to be a dumb pedestrian to just run in front of a moving car and expect it to stop on a dime for you.

[Gerrinson]

Common sense still needs to be used regardless of laws. As Lace pointed out, pedestrians have the right of way. But you'd have to be a dumb pedestrian to just run in front of a moving car and expect it to stop on a dime for you.

And yet, more and more, that is exactly what I see around here.

Further, I don't always enjoy sharing the road with bicyclists here because, let's face it, in a 55 mph zone, they're going to slow down the flow of traffic pretty severely.

But my biggest complaint is that they ignore basic traffic rules - blowing stop signs, red lights, riding up the oncoming lane and turning through intersections into the oncoming lane, skimming between pedestrians in the sidewalk even though all other street traffic has stopped, etc.

Essentially, everything that they accuse the automobile drivers of doing, that is what they bicyclists in my area do. Well, the majority. I've seen a few that obey the rules and I always give them the same respect.

However, the next douche that rides into my lane against traffic might find that I suddenly have to open my door to, say...shoe out a bee...and I didn't see them as I wasn't expecting them to approach from the front of my vehicle when they should have been on the other side of the road.

Is it really bashing cyclists when I get pissed off at them for breaking the laws? These assholes are the ones who are always screaming 'share the road.' When they have proven themselves capable of actually sharing responsibly, then I will be happy to do so. Until then, they can get the fuck off the road.



Wow. I think I need to eat something. I was a bit vicious there.

[protege]

But my biggest complaint is that they ignore basic traffic rules - blowing stop signs, red lights, riding up the oncoming lane and turning through intersections into the oncoming lane, skimming between pedestrians in the sidewalk even though all other street traffic has stopped, etc.

Essentially, everything that they accuse the automobile drivers of doing, that is what they bicyclists in my area do. Well, the majority. I've seen a few that obey the rules and I always give them the same respect.

I second that. Locally, the *vast majority* of cyclists do not obey traffic laws. Not so much in the morning, but I see it every night on the way home from work. They blow through traffic lights or stop signs, and then yell at cars who are *obeying* the laws? How the hell does that work? Sorry, but even at 5mph after leaving a light...if you hit my Corolla, it's going to fuck you up. At most, I'll get a dented fender. You, on the other hand, will probably go flying.

I always try to give cyclists enough room, simply because (locally), I know that they're going to do something stupid. You don't know if they're going to suddenly turn left or switch lanes in front of you without looking. Things like that are *exactly* why many motorists hate sharing the road.

[Nyoibo]

cars break laws too(no seatbelts, speeding, running red lights, drunk driving, talking/texting on cell phones, need I go on?), does that mean we don't have to respect them-or is each individual only responsible for their own behavior?

Riding in the center of the lane is legal, and there is no law that requires a cyclist to allow traffic to pass.
which I already posted

Bar the seatbelt one I see cyclists breaking those laws pretty much every day (except drunk driving, that's more occasional)

In Adelaide we have designated bike lanes on a fair few roads, but cyclists insist on riding 2 or 3 abreast and going out into the car lane (illegal), they squeeze between cars to get to the front of traffic at lights (illegal) they make left turns at red lights through pedestrians (illegal) and I can't remember the last time I ever saw a cyclist indicate when they were turning (also illegal)

I bitch about cyclists not because of some inherent bigotry, but because on the whole I see more cyclists breaking the law than I do motorists and considering I see 1 cyclists for every 20 motorists that's a pretty high percentage of cyclists ignoring road laws.

[AdminAssistant]

I've often said, that I will happily go around or wait for a cyclist who is obviously using their bike as a form of trasportation. I only get pissed at the Lance Armstrong wannabes in their spandex unitards blocking main highways so they can get their exercise. There are local parks with bike trails, if exercise is the goal, go THERE.

I won't judge all cyclists based on them, but the f*ckers who ride their bikes on campus and think that gives them the right to run over pedestrians REALLY piss me off.

[BlaqueKatt]

It's just plain silly to bike on really busy streets and never expect anything to ever happen, then complain about streets that are now built for cars and trucks are full of cars and trucks that are bigger than you and pose a threat to your health.

because we are believed to be doing something childish, or worse, inherently dangerous and therefore foolish, because those who despised and threaten us are not held accountable, and because carelessness behind the wheel of a motor vehicle that results in the death of another is not considered to be a serious crime because it is "inevitable."

Why this tendency to translate human responsibility into an uncontrollable force of nature? It should be obvious. They are the majority; they hold the power. It’s in their interest to portray traffic – in the context of the motorist/bicyclist/pedestrian hierarchy – as something natural that cannot and should not be "unreasonably" controlled.

Myth: Roads Are Primarily For Cars.

The public roads are for transportation; have been for thousands of years.

Myth: Bicycling With Traffic Is Dangerous And Stupid.

Bicycling with traffic is safe and fun for those who operate by predictable, vehicular rules. The single most important rule: merge with traffic and take the full lane whenever necessary for your safety. Bicyclist Education is the most effective method known for eliminating up to 95% of car/bike accidents. Lawful Vehicular Cycling is bicycling cooperatively with traffic by emphasizing the same simple vehicular rules that all drivers use. Vehicular Cycling is safer than driving a car, flying in an airliner, motorcycling, skiing, swimming, or boating. Most of what people have learned about bike safety from parents, police and schools is both wrong and dangerous.

A bicyclist following the rules of the road in traffic does not pose a risk. The main thing that poses life-threatening risk is the human being operating the motor vehicle on that road.

Further, I don't always enjoy sharing the road with bicyclists here because, let's face it, in a 55 mph zone, they're going to slow down the flow of traffic pretty severely.

yup and all cars can easily do 55 mph during rush hour.....it takes me 10-15 minutes to get to work, one of my co-workers who lives one block from me takes 30 minutes. Not because of bicycles, but because of other cars.


Lawful, Vehicular Cyclists will merge and take the full lane when approaching narrow lanes or any possible hazard. This rarely slows motorists more than 20-30 seconds. wow a whole 20-30 seconds that's pretty severe.

From the article I asked people to read before commenting

To some in our culture, bicyclists are strange people who wear odd clothes and act childishly. Native Americans were described in those same terms by colonists. But what do we take, or seem to take, from motorists? It’s time, the ultimate abstract resource. We are perceived as being a "hindrance" to motorists. We supposedly steal their precious time. Never mind that the vast majority of motorist delay is caused by motorists.

Participate in a non-violent Critical Mass ride and you risk being beaten by law enforcement (this has happened and is documented) for the crime of delaying the important people in motor vehicles. Their time is more important than your time, your happiness, and your freedom to associate with your friends and neighbors while you ride.

Is it really bashing cyclists when I get pissed off at them for breaking the laws? These assholes are the ones who are always screaming 'share the road.' When they have proven themselves capable of actually sharing responsibly, then I will be happy to do so. Until then, they can get the fuck off the road.

motorists terrorize cyclists and pedestrians (especially when we get in their way while obeying the written laws), justify encouragement of still more and faster motor vehicle use through the construction of parking lots and highways (which bicyclists and pedestrians help pay for), and then blame cyclists and walkers for acting – out of fear for their lives -- in ways contrary to the rules of the road.

I second that. Locally, the *vast majority* of cyclists do not obey traffic laws. Not so much in the morning, but I see it every night on the way home from work.

Myth: Bicyclists Break Laws. They Don't Deserve Respect.

Car drivers break laws too, yet are not subject to this frequent rationale used to oppress minorities: "You are responsible for the behaviour of others of your kind." Every person is responsible for their own behaviour. Every driver is responsible for sharing the road safely with other road users.

I second that. Locally, the *vast majority* of cyclists do not obey traffic laws.

I have been screamed at, had cars accelerate to try and hit me, had things thrown at me(assault), simply due to my mode of transportation-It's bigotry and discrimination. Pure and simple. My treatment while obeying traffic laws by the *vast majority* of motorists I'm tempted to carry a chain or a window punch. Not much different than people going to open car doors into cyclists(which is usually considered illegal as "blocking/impeding traffic") now is it?

Basically you have all said that you being inconvenienced and angry is justification for violence and banning bicycles-it's vigilantism, and in the case of opening a car door into a cyclist it could kill them-here's a list of some of them, but I guess your inconvenience justifies manslaughter-again replace bicycles with any other minority group and read the articles I linked to and asked people to read before responding as it addresses all the arguments I've seen here so far. And pretty much all I've been doing is requoting my first post and the articles that weren't read as all the arguments have been covered there. Most bike lanes are either used as parking lanes or right next to them-in my city we are required BY LAW to give parked cars 3 feet of space-with a 2.5 foot bike lane right next to the parking lane how do I abide by the law and ride in the bike lane-I can't so I take the lane.

"The driver of the SUV did not have a green light," said Tom Helm after watching the video, recorded from a Madison Metro bus, that showed the vehicle of State Representative Fred Clark colliding with bicyclist Richard Rideout, 56.





the links again are
Here
and
here