Black and White thinking (putting words in my mouth)

[Rageaholic]

When I used to be debate religion online, there were many times when I would bring up the absurdity of god sending people to hell over silly things like bad thoughts. I would argue that the punishment doesn't fit the crime and that if god was loving he wouldn't have such high standards. You know what I got as a response one time?

"So god should just let Hitler into Heaven?"



WTF?!!!!

I had said NOTHING about letting Hitler into heaven. I was talking about everyday people whose only crime was being flawed humans, not ruthless dictators! Second of all, I hadn't even said anything about letting anyone into heaven, let alone Hitler. I was talking about people going to HELL, not heaven! And even then, it doesn't have to be such a harsh punishment. Why should god send someone to eternal torment over a few little mistakes? It would be like a cop shooting someone for not making a full stop at a stop sign.

That's an extreme example of this, but I used to see this on so many debates. Someone will say that it's too harsh for god to send someone to hell for lusting after a woman. Instead of talking about the sin of lust, someone else will change to sin to rape, trying to make them the same thing. Uh, rape involves hurting someone else, lust doesn't, BIG difference.

This doesn't only occur in religious debates either. Just because I think Capitalism is flawed and that the rich have too much money doesn't mean I'm a Communist. Just because I think the Schools are too strict doesn't mean I think children should be allowed to misbehave. Wanting a little fun every now and then doesn't mean I expect the world to be "all fun and games". 75% doesn't equal zero, and lastly, I'm not for you, but I'm definately not against you (but if you act like that, I may have to be against you).

[kiwi]

the lesson here is don't argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience

[Talon]

Ah, the false dichotomy. Take any online debate, and I await with garlic-baited breath for this personal non-favourite to show up

[Wingates_Hellsing]

This particular flavor of debating absurdity bears a certain resemblance to dog shit...


It's everywhere...

[Rageaholic]

This particular flavor of debating absurdity bears a certain resemblance to dog shit...


It's everywhere...

LOLOLOL so true. Here's a link I found that describes it. The "False dilemma".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

It also describes the "false in one thing, false in everything" falicy which I also hate. Politicians love to use that one against each other.

[NateSean]

I'd like to add to this discussion by introducing what I like to call "The Black Knight" syndrome.

Many people, both online and in real life suffer from TBKS. Here are the symptoms.

You've debated with this person for hours, days, weeks, etc and finally you realize that you could get more meaningful conversation from a broken pullstring talking Casper doll. So you end it. Maybe you even say something along the lines of, "I'm done arguing with you."

To which the TBKS sufferer replies, "Hah. Because you know I'm right."

My mother suffers from this syndrome. Anytime you just simply refuse to carry on the argument she tells others that it was because you knew she was right.

[lordlundar]

This particular flavor of debating absurdity bears a certain resemblance to dog shit...


It's everywhere...

True enough. I have had it happen to me here on more than one occasion.

[jackfaire]

Well your problem as I see it is you just don't believe in the false dichotomy I mean you either do or you don't

[Rageaholic]

I'd like to add to this discussion by introducing what I like to call "The Black Knight" syndrome.

Many people, both online and in real life suffer from TBKS. Here are the symptoms.

You've debated with this person for hours, days, weeks, etc and finally you realize that you could get more meaningful conversation from a broken pullstring talking Casper doll. So you end it. Maybe you even say something along the lines of, "I'm done arguing with you."

To which the TBKS sufferer replies, "Hah. Because you know I'm right."

My mother suffers from this syndrome. Anytime you just simply refuse to carry on the argument she tells others that it was because you knew she was right.

Ah, another thing fundie Christians do! You go in circles arguing with them, then they think that because you get sick of repeating your point 200,000 times that they are right. Even though they are the ones who can't grasp your arguement. (and just so I don't offend any Christian posters, I'm talking about the select few like Ray Comfort who use that black and white thinking. I've heard the rhetoric so many times, I could memorize it)

Another one, that's similar to the false dilemma is the slippery slope falicy. Most of the time, it's simply overreacting, failing to realize you can have one without the other. For instance, medical marijuana. A lot of the arguements I hear are "if we allow this, than what does that open the door too". Same thing with gay marrage. Again, they aren't arguing against gay marrage of medical marijuana, they are trying to tie it into other things. In the end, it's all about them controlling the playing field, even at the cost of trumping the rights of others.

[Dreamstalker]

Oh, the ex was notorious for this. Not only the false dilemma...every logical fallacy you could name, he probably used it at some point (not that he could name them...if I called him out on the fallacy-of-the-week, I'd get blasted for "making that up"). He would also tend toward the volume approach (I'm the loudest, therefore my viewpoint MUST be true!!!!1111).

I had/have better conversations with my imaginary friends/muses...

[DrFaroohk]

I sometimes come down with TBKS, but its more with people who refuse to hear an argument to begin with. Not someone you've been arguing back and forth forever. Sometimes they cover it up with "well I'm too MATURE to argue, yeah that's it" but really they know that what I will say is going to defeat their argument and they don't know where to go from there, so they resort to petty tactics like interrupting me and cutting me off.

That's why I like arguing online. No one can interrupt you. Of course the downside is that we never ever have to see each other, so its a lot easier to stick it to someone and put them in their place because they're never going to be your boss or mother-in-law.

[jackfaire]

put them in their place because they're never going to be your boss or mother-in-law.

I wonder if anyone has ever been at work and heard their Boss bitch to a coworker about this person online and it was them he was talking about.

[Slytovhand]

You do realise that I'm your boss, don't you Jack????


One fallacy that I particularly loathe is ignoring the simple 'relevantly similar' analogy. "But it's the same thing" they'll cry. No, not even close!

Which leads to another way to completely destroy any attempts to have a sane argument - focussing on the analogy, and taking that as the main point!

But, as I'm sure Raps or Broom would chime in with at this stage, the OP is indicative of herd mentality, so not even remotely surprising to find. Which is why it works for politicians, the herd fall for it time and again.

[Rageaholic]

One fallacy that I particularly loathe is ignoring the simple 'relevantly similar' analogy. "But it's the same thing" they'll cry. No, not even close!

Which leads to another way to completely destroy any attempts to have a sane argument - focussing on the analogy, and taking that as the main point!

What is it with fundies and their logic? That's another one that can be applied to the numerous religious debates I've had.

I've heard that stupid courtroom analogy where they compare you to a criminal being sentenced to prison for murder. Which like my original post says, completely ignored the fact that the criminal is being sentenced for murder, not bullshit crimes like "lust". Also, hell sounds like a much harsher punishment than prison. So basically, harsher punishment + lesser crime = not the same thing.