Psychochild (long rant)

[Lace Neil Singer]

My immediate response is to suggest putting the brat in care. Either his lying will come to light after it's obvious that the people in charge of the children's home are not hurting him any more than you are, or the brat will get a good hard dose of reality and learn that his lies are only hurting him and learn to keep his trap shut in future. In any case, he won't be able to hurt you any more by telling lies about abuse, and it could just be respite care and you could have him back when he's learned his lesson.

[elsporko]

I’m not sure if your being sarcastic, but let me clarify.

Per DrF.
“He tells people I punch him, I hit him, I lay on him, I pick him up and throw him into the wall”

There’s a difference between what the kids claming and what I’m suggesting. The child is claming abuse and from the description knows he’s making false accusations in order to get attention or get his step dad in trouble. It seems as if now a days if one dares to even place a hand on their kids in any threatening manor instantly their considered child abusers. I don’t look at it that way and the law in MD at least doesn’t look at it that way. According to our statutes one can spank a child so long as no permit marks are left. Essentially you can hit them, just don’t leave a giant red mark, bruise, or break anything. For some kids that’s the only way to get through to them.

DrF has already stated he’s tried immobilizing him when he’s throwing a temper tantrum, he’s tried time outs, he’s tried reason. This kid either doesn’t care or is enjoying the problems he’s causing to much to stop. Explaining that lying to people will result in a spanking and following up on it is not such a bad thing. Explaining that throwing temper tantrums, hitting people, throwing things, all the things he knows he’s not suppose to do will result in further punishment wither it be a longer spanking or other punishment may help as well, but only if Dr.F’s wife backs him up on it.

The kid says he gets hit. You are suggesting spanking which is hitting the kid. The kid will stop lying because only because he is now being hit. Spanking isn't an effective form of punishment unless you want to teach a kid to hit people when they don't like what that person is doing. Time outs and positive reinforcment is good enough for a child that age. Now if there is a deep seated issue with the kid that he can't stop lying or can't tell the differance between getting hit in a game or real life then some family therapy may be helpful

[KitterCat]

The kid will stop lying because only because he is now being hit.

I’m suggesting a form of punishment that may work considering that it doesn’t sound as if anything else has worked. If spanking him is what gets him to stop, looks as if the goal of getting him to stop lying has been achieved to me.

Spanking isn't an effective form of punishment unless you want to teach a kid to hit people when they don't like what that person is doing. Time outs and positive reinforcement is good enough for a child that age.

That type of reasoning is why bullies often times are able to get away with what they do. After all the victim is suppose to “reason” with them to get them to stop. Thing is it doesn’t always work. Positive reinforcement is great when it works, but from the sounds of what DrF is says its not working. So he’s got a 5 year old bully on his hands.


To Dr.F,
Please know that I’m not saying that you have to spank your stepson, its only a suggestion.

From my own upbringing my parents had to use different tactics between myself and my brothers. I stopped getting spankings when I was 5 because pain didn’t work so well on me, but grounding did. Spanking worked well on my 1st brother, 2nd brother needed more reason, and the third did the same thing your 5 year old is doing. Strange thing is they didnt keep up on anytype of punishment with him, so they now have a 21 highschool drop out who's figured out how to bully his own parents.

[Boozy]

We have a few threads about spanking already. Here's the most recent:

http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=1677

Corporal punishment is a huge topic in itself. Let's take arguments in that direction to another thread, please. Thanks.

[elsporko]

That type of reasoning is why bullies often times are able to get away with what they do. After all the victim is suppose to “reason” with them to get them to stop

Your right, its absurd to expect an adult to act more mature then a five year old. All he has to do is beat the kid up and all the problems will be solved.

[Hobbs]

People who think spanking is abuse are absurd. I've been spanked, and each time I noticed it for what it was; a correction for an errant behavior.

That said, we should drop the spanking rhetoric and return to the matter at hand. I would also agree that therapy/talking with the mother are excellent strategies.

[RavenStarr]

DrF who are these people that your son tells these "stories" to? Does your wife back you up at all?

[Boozy]

That said, we should drop the spanking rhetoric and return to the matter at hand.

Why, what a wonderful idea! I wish a moderator had thought to say that.

Oh, wait. One did:

We have a few threads about spanking already. Here's the most recent:

http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=1677

Corporal punishment is a huge topic in itself. Let's take arguments in that direction to another thread, please. Thanks.

[RavenStarr]

Why, what a wonderful idea! I wish a moderator had thought to say that.

Oh, wait. One did:

Yeah but no harm in mentioning it again.

[jackfaire]

Spanking isn't an effective form of punishment unless you want to teach a kid to hit people when they don't like what that person is doing.

Wow. Is that why I started going around punching people when I didn't like what they were doing? OH wait a minute I didn't

Myself and other kids I know who had spanking used as a punishment never thought hitting people was a good solution but many of the kids that were never spanked didn't think twice about hitting people for doing things they didn't like.

[elsporko]

Wow, your personal antedote has changed my view on the subject. I will go tell the people I work with at the group home for juvenile delinquents that all the studies they have read are wrong and that their 30+ years of experience in the field are wrong because one person and some people he knows were spanked and turned out okay. Everybody who was hit as a child and did not turn out okay are wrong and should be told to stop whining abuse.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

There's a not particularly subtle and very much important difference between spanking and 'hitting' one's child.

Spanking: A punishment that, correctly used, is not physically harmful. Leaves no marks, but is a humiliating experience for the child, and that is where it's effectiveness comes from.

'Hitting': Deliberately causing physical harm to a child, either for the hell of it, or as a punishment. Leaves marks and is most often less humiliating then it is painful (in more than one way).

[elsporko]

You are striking the child. I suppose you can take the time afterwards to explain to the five year old why spanking is humiliation based and hitting is pain based and thats why he isn't allowed to hit his classmate when the classmate is doing something wrong but you can spank him when he does something wrong but the more likely situation is that the kid won't tell the differance.

There's also the whole issue of people losing control while upset and spanking too hard.

[Hobbs]

Um, we're still on the subject of corporal punishment. As aforementioned, let's drop that discussion here and concentrate on what this thread is discussing.

[Boozy]

I'll just quote myself again, here:

We have a few threads about spanking already. Here's the most recent:

http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=1677

Corporal punishment is a huge topic in itself. Let's take arguments in that direction to another thread, please. Thanks.

Please take any further discussions on the topic of spanking to the thread above, or start another one if you feel like it.

This is the last warning. Please don't get the thread closed. That's not fair to those who have stayed on topic.