I don't understand business and economics

[DrFaroohk]

There's this machine at the factory that repeatedly breaks. It's broken down every single day this week, and all the regulars say it always does that. Sometimes it's just a quick 20 minute fix, but about every other day it's a 2-3 hour fix.

That means we all just stand around and wait for it to get fixed. We're still getting paid. I did the math, and that's like 1500-2000 dollars per hour that's getting flushed down the toilet while the line is shut down.

Not to mention that it makes us all extremely pissy with the bosses. It's fun getting paid for doing nothing but it's also fun clocking out and going the fuck home because your day is over. We all DO have lives outside of work, and getting home at 8:30 because someone else fucked up is no good for your work attitude. You hate your boss and you don't work as well.

I understand some of this machinery in factories can be expensive, but just exactly how expensive can the friggin thing be? They just need a new machine and supposedly everything is better, but instead they're nursing along this thirty year old piece of crap. You'd think that just with the lost time, it would pay for itself in a week, possibly a month. Even if the thing was half a million dollars, it'd have paid for itself in a year. Less down time, productivity goes up, payroll goes way down, workers are happier because they're getting out when the sun is still shining and then jesus would love you.

If it were my business that's how I'd run it, but then again I guess i'm stuck in a shit job for a reason. I just don't get it. Fix the machine, half your problems go away. Why is this apparently not a good idea?

[protege]

That machine probably isn't being replaced...because of one thing: Labor unions. Think about it, if a new or better machine is brought in...and is determined to be more efficient, meaning that the company can be doing more with less employees, unions usually fear that jobs will be getting cut.

For example, that was one reason why Pittsburgh's mills are no more. Those mills, with rare exceptions, were still making steel using 1800s methods. They couldn't modernize, simply because whenever that was attempted...the unions would go on strike to protest. They were more interested in protecting jobs, rather than the company's health.

Eventually, local steel became more expensive...which didn't help when imported steel from Japan and other places started coming in during the 1970s. By then, it was too late--most of the big mills were ailing, and were gone by 1980. There are still a few "mini-mills" around, but production will never again be on the same scale it was 40 or 50 years ago.

Anyway, all too often, management simply doesn't want to deal with things like that. They'll ignore it in the hopes that it will magically fix itself. I deal with this shit *every* damn day--my boss makes me keep computer equipment running as long as possible. But, after awhile, I simply run out of ways to patch things up...and I get to hear him whine about how things are "expensive."

[Nyoibo]

Reminds me of when I was working at the egg farm, the machine would break down and it could take up to 4 hours to fix, long tea breaks and lunch break and still getting paid, apparently there's only 2 people in Australia qualified to service and fix the machine properly.

[HYHYBT]

There are many other possibilities, though less likely: perhaps they know a new machine isn't enough more reliable than the old one to be profitable, or else that when the new one *does* break it's worse; perhaps they simply don't have the money to pay for it, even if it would pay itself off after a year, and you know the loan market is tight; perhaps it's gotten bad enough that they *have* decided to get a replacement, but it's the sort of thing that takes months to get in, etc.

[KellyHabersham]

Sounds about the way things have gone with the computer set-up in the church office - at one point you had to use three different computers to get our monthly newsletter published on the website........the actual document was on one, the software to convert files was on another computer, and the one in the pastor's office was the only one that had Internet access/was set up to transfer files to the website.

[blas87]

You are preaching to the congregation, my friend.

That is our #1 problem at my job. The best part is that the bigwigs love to beef up how we have the most modern technology and the best equipment to make our product.

Fucking bullshit. Some of the machines there are as old as I am, if not older. MANY are obselete, as in, not made for MANY YEARS, some were not sold after the early 90s!

The newer machines that we do have, we only get because the older machines cause so much scrap and quality issues and customers threaten to go elsewhere. And it takes something like THAT to get those tightwads to open up their wallets.

[Boozy]

It may have something to do with the credit crunch. The credit market really hasn't fully recovered yet, so your company may be having trouble getting financing (at least, with favourable terms) for large purchases like new equipment.

Spending a pile of money upfront in anticipation of savings in the future is usually not beyond the average business. There may be other factors at play. If I see a factory using old and failing equipment resulting in major production losses, my assumption would be that they are *this* close to bankruptcy.

I hope that's not the case here, since I know how badly you need that job, DrFaroohk.

[AdminAssistant]

For example, that was one reason why Pittsburgh's mills are no more. Those mills, with rare exceptions, were still making steel using 1800s methods. They couldn't modernize, simply because whenever that was attempted...the unions would go on strike to protest. They were more interested in protecting jobs, rather than the company's health.

See, Joel, Billy. "Allentown." The Nylon Curtain (1982).

[smileyeagle1021]

Simple answer, capital cost. It's true that the company can (and actually is required to) spread out the cost on their books for year (I believe the requirement now for manufacturing equipment is 7 years), so even in the short run it will look like a decreased cost. The however is that they will be doing one of two things. They will either be converting a LOT of liquid assets into plant assets or they will be increasing liabilities to increase plant assets. Both of those actions (reducing liquid assets and increasing liabilities) will negatively affect their ratios that are used to determine, among other things, stock value and credit rating. Not knowing what their financials look like, they might now be in the position where they have already taken a beating on stock value and can't afford to take that hit to value or they may already have a precarious credit rating and don't want to risk it in case they have some emergency come up where they will need to use their credit.

[DrFaroohk]

I guess I can understand the reasons now, it just sucks that the job never ends sometimes. Money is great, overtime is great, but fuck, I DO have a life. I wouldn't even mind it so much if it was just "Hey, this job is 7-7, that's how it is." But instead we have no fucking clue when we'll we be done. We might get down to one fish left, and then all the machines die and we all have to just stand around and do nothing for the next 6 hours.

And yeah, that's not nearly as cool as it sounds. "Hey you get paid to do nothing!" No I get paid to stand on a painful concrete floor in the freezing cold. Yeah there's worse jobs, but that doesn't make it suck any less.

I just hate working. From the age I was old enough to understand about going to work I used to marvel at how much my dad worked. 50-60 hours a week doing construction, sometimes more, and then he worked on weekends too.

To me that just always seemed shitty. You get up, go to work, come home dead tired, have just enough time to barely recover before you go back to bed and do it again. You never have any time to yourself and what time you do have you have to split six ways so its not even worth it, and before long you're just a friggin zombie.

And I ask myself...what's the point? What's the point of even going on living if your life is just reduced to that?

[blas87]

Hearing you loud and clear, Doc. Loud and clear.

I don't work with fish, but I fully feel your pain and agony.

Extra money is great, but when are you supposed to be able to take a breath and sit down and relax for once?!

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Hearing you loud and clear, Doc. Loud and clear.

I don't work with fish, but I fully feel your pain and agony.

Extra money is great, but when are you supposed to be able to take a breath and sit down and relax for once?!

If you where to ask doc's bosses that, they'd probably say: "retirement"

Is it just me, or are there way too many people around that don't see the need to actually live life?

[protege]

Is it just me, or are there way too many people around that don't see the need to actually live life?

I work for someone like that. My boss has actually said, that if it was up to him, he'd have us working every Federal holiday, weekend, etc. and our hours would be increased. Of course, this is also the same guy who, on 9/11, said that if he was in the WTC, he wouldn't have left his trading desk. That is, until the buildings came down Pardon my French, but fuck that shit.

I can't see the point...of working all that time. Seriously, it's bad enough to have to stay a full day when the markets (I work for a brokerage) close early. Most of the people we do business with either take the day off, or leave early. Yet, we don't...and then I get to hear the boss whine about how "slow" business is.

On those days, I literally have nothing to do. Yet, I'm not allowed to read sports car magazines, take a nap, or surf the web. At least when he's in the office I have built models at my desk, ordered parts for the MG, etc. Hell, one of my last projects...was to compile a list of every Penn Central E-unit locomotive, and the different paint schemes they went through.

I guess I just don't understand why someone would want to work themselves to death. IMHO, people who do that are usually wound pretty tight! I'm not sure I could do that--I only get one shot at life, and it moves pretty fucking quickly as it is!

That's not to say that you can't slow it down a bit... How? Relax! That's why things such as model cars, trains, and other hobbies are such big sellers...and why I usually feel so refreshed after a quick blast in the sports car.

[HYHYBT]

Of course, this is also the same guy who, on 9/11, said that if he was in the WTC, he wouldn't have left his trading desk. That is, until the buildings came down

It's a shame, then, that he didn't have the opportunity to trade places with someone who didn't get out and would have liked to.