"proud to be an American"

[Ghel]

Because I was curious, I did a search for Hobbs' quote. It's from the Code of the U.S. Fighting Force (described here on Wikipedia). Three things I noted from the article: 1. God is mentioned only once, where Hobbs quoted it. 2. "It is considered an important part of U.S. military doctrine but is not formal military law..." 3. The Code of Conduct was established "after the Korean War", which was a time of paranoia and commie hunting. It's no surprise that God was inserted into a document written at that time.

This reminds me of the way so many people try to claim this is a Christian nation or that it was founded on Christian principles. We have a secular government, and to say otherwise is to lie about or misrepresent the documents on which our country is based.

[smileyeagle1021]

I hope he is working with rights groups...and going out and voting for change.

Vote vote and vote some more... which sadly, outside of the areas where it's a non-issue won't do a damned thing because in so much of the country the people WANT the anti-gay legislatures. Hell, there is a quote out of Bakersfield "it is better to have a gay representative voting against gay rights than a straight representative voting for them"... and the oft repeated mantra "I'd never vote for an openly gay man" (insert any city and state for that one).
Let's face facts, Obama was the most promising candidate for gay rights in 09, and his policy has been pretty much do nothing... yup, that's the best we can hope for, do nothing.
If a candidate came along who actually would do something, you'd better believe I'd do everything possible to support them... sadly, I don't see such a candidate coming along with our current political environment.

No good reason? Really? Many Christians, who, according to the Bible, aren't supposed to hate anyone, hate him because they don't like how he was born. I'm thinking he'd probably be a bit less likely to hate them if they'd pull their heads out of their asses and realize he has shit to do, like live his life with the person he loves.

rolled in with the reply below

So hating all gays is bad, but hating all Christians (many of whom don't hate gays or may even be gay themselves) is okay, you know, because some of those Christians hate gays.


Would it be okay if instead of gays and Christians it was whites and blacks? After all, some blacks hate whites right? That means as a white person I should hate all blacks.

The difference between your example and mine is that there is no high level black leadership telling black people it is their duty to hate whites. Many prominent Christian leaders do. There is a very vocal majority amongst black people that racism, in any form including from within, is wrong. I've yet to hear such from Christians. Yeah, here and there you'll here a person who says that they don't agree that homosexuality is a sin, but you don't see any movement like Martin Luther Kings denouncing all violence and hatred.
I guarantee you the conflict between gays and christians would cease if the majority of Christians were to say "enough is enough, we need to stop the hatred and bigotry and let these people live their lives".
Sadly, the vast majority of Christians, either by their action or their inaction, have shown that at the very least they don't disagree with the bigotry and hatred.

[Hobbs]

The CoC is made to show how an American is to conduct himself as a prisoner of war. THe UCMJ is the code of military law, and in the UCMJ, no mention of religion is given, except the articles that include discrimination laws etc. However, despite that, misconduct and failure to obey the CoC can be punishable after expatriation. That is to say, if I end up saying something disloyal, I could be court martialed.

Smiley, I think you forget Malcolm X and the Black Panthers, both of which advocated outright violence during the 60's. Malcolm X was also a blatant racist. So yes, there are Black leaders who advocate hatred towards whites.

[smileyeagle1021]

Smiley, I think you forget Malcolm X and the Black Panthers, both of which advocated outright violence during the 60's. Malcolm X was also a blatant racist. So yes, there are Black leaders who advocate hatred towards whites.

Once again, there were just as many black leaders if not more advocating non violence... where are the Christian leaders standing up and saying "no more violence, no more hatred, no more bigotry"
I'll wait...
Oh what's that... not a single one of prominence... thought so.
No, we have Christian leaders who stand up and advocate the genocide of Uganda, who stand up and advocate taking away the constitutional rights of Americans (something I'd assume you'd understand, assuming that your country is more important than your God)... even the "accepting" leaders turn a deaf ear to the genocide and have a deafening silence in response to hate crimes.

And to be honest, your comments earlier about how if you don't love it leave it kind of proves my point that there is nothing to be proud of in this nation unless you are one of those privileged enough to be born Heterosexual and delusional enough to stay Christian.

[AdminAssistant]

I went with some friends to a Professional Bull Riding event (they actually made me go, since they're all city kids and wanted a Redneck to English interpreter). At any rate, the blatant over-the-top patriotism was just....frightening, really. The fireworks, the flags everywhere, even country superstar Gretchen Wilson singing the national anthem! (She, of course, sucked.)

I appreciate the freedoms and opportunities granted to me because I'm an American. But we do a terrible job taking care of our poor, our sick, the oppressed, and even our fine upstanding members of our military. Everybody talks about how much we should support the troops. Yes, great. But how about we get them some decent fucking medical and psychiatric care, mkay?

America is a great country, but it isn't perfect and it isn't better than other first-world nations. This idea that "America is the greatest nation in the world" is nationalist (duh) and isolationist and that just leads to trouble.

[draggar]

Well, at least you can be patriotic in America; .

Come to Miami - many people there are more proud of their Cuban (or other Caribbean heritage) than to be American. Most will fly flags from their home nations but refuse to fly American flags - many even refuse to become citizens, just stay being a resident alien.

[Hobbs]

Once again, there were just as many black leaders if not more advocating non violence... where are the Christian leaders standing up and saying "no more violence, no more hatred, no more bigotry"
I'll wait...
Oh what's that... not a single one of prominence... thought so.
No, we have Christian leaders who stand up and advocate the genocide of Uganda, who stand up and advocate taking away the constitutional rights of Americans (something I'd assume you'd understand, assuming that your country is more important than your God)... even the "accepting" leaders turn a deaf ear to the genocide and have a deafening silence in response to hate crimes.

And to be honest, your comments earlier about how if you don't love it leave it kind of proves my point that there is nothing to be proud of in this nation unless you are one of those privileged enough to be born Heterosexual and delusional enough to stay Christian.

It flows downhill God-->Country-->etc, but nice try.

As for religious leaders, Bayard Rustin comes to mind [link: http://www.quakerinfo.com/quak_br.shtml]. Not so much prominence as other leaders, but a leader nonetheless. You might want to check out this website as well: http://www.clergyunited.org/about.htm

And actually, if you read the Constitution, it doesn't say you have the right to marry another man. The 13th and 14th Amendments aren't about sexuality, and the ERA hasn't been ratified. So it's not your constitutional right.

[smileyeagle1021]

The 13th and 14th Amendments aren't about sexuality, and the ERA hasn't been ratified. So it's not your constitutional right.

No, but they do touch on discrimination and I'm not talking about not being able to marry, I'm talking about representatives who are fighting to keep discrimination legal in the workplace and in housing.

[Hobbs]

"... nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

[KnitShoni]

So hating all gays is bad, but hating all Christians (many of whom don't hate gays or may even be gay themselves) is okay, you know, because some of those Christians hate gays.


Would it be okay if instead of gays and Christians it was whites and blacks? After all, some blacks hate whites right? That means as a white person I should hate all blacks.

Well, but you forget, for a long time in this country, it WAS like that. This is why a lot of my people don't trust a lot of yours.

I never said it was ok for him to hate ALL Christians. I was responding to your implication that he had no reason to. I feel he is somewhat justified. The difference, I think, between smiley and the "Christians" he deals with, is the fact that they would kill him if they could, whereas, I doubt smiley would waste that much effort on them.

[AdminAssistant]

And actually, if you read the Constitution, it doesn't say you have the right to marry another man. The 13th and 14th Amendments aren't about sexuality, and the ERA hasn't been ratified. So it's not your constitutional right.

Yet. .....Yet. I have full confidence that the ERA will be passed, one day, and then a lot of shit is going to change. I pray that I will live to see that day.

As to the rest, wow...just....wow. The Consistution also says that a slave is worth 3/5's of a vote. It's amended. When the Founders wrote the Constitution, homosexuality was completely hidden. No one dared of even thinking about being openly gay. Gay marriage was a non-issue. It's an issue now, and an egregious civil rights violation.

[Hobbs]

Yet. .....Yet. I have full confidence that the ERA will be passed, one day, and then a lot of shit is going to change. I pray that I will live to see that day.

As to the rest, wow...just....wow. The Consistution also says that a slave is worth 3/5's of a vote. It's amended. When the Founders wrote the Constitution, homosexuality was completely hidden. No one dared of even thinking about being openly gay. Gay marriage was a non-issue. It's an issue now, and an egregious civil rights violation.

I'm trying to point out that he needs to do something about it rather than blame everyone for his problems and doing the "waa, they're persecuting me!" bit. I'm rather sick of it, from anyone.

I support the ERA btw.

[Ghel]

It flows downhill God-->Country-->etc, but nice try.

Are you saying that if your perceived duty to your God conflicted with your duty to your country, that your God would win? I think this is exactly the sort of thing that Smiley is complaining about.

Not only do Christians try to get laws enacted that force others to behave the way they do, most Christians don't seem to understand that other people don't think the way they do.

[Hobbs]

Are you saying that if your perceived duty to your God conflicted with your duty to your country, that your God would win? I think this is exactly the sort of thing that Smiley is complaining about.

Not only do Christians try to get laws enacted that force others to behave the way they do, most Christians don't seem to understand that other people don't think the way they do.

Well, I believe my God is higher than my country, but of course there are exceptions. Let me give an analogy.

I believe firmly in "Thou shalt not kill." As a result, if I kill someone in war, I believe I have perpetrated a sin (not a crime, mind you). Therefore, I ask my God for forgiveness of my sin, since I believe so strongly in serving my country. If I go to God in judgment, and find that it is not so, then he is not God, and I needent[sic] worry (Kingdom of Heaven reference).

For your last statement; the same can be said for homosexuals. Smiley expects them(Christians) to think the same way that he does, and that any deviation is akin to an egregeous error on their part. Now, it is wrong to want to visit violence on someone because of who they are, but it shouldn't be wrong to think of someone's actions as morally/ethically erroneous.

[bunnyboy]

Can't blame it all on Mr. Obama... he can't act without Congressional approval, so it's both the White House and Capital Hill that shares the blame.

Also forgot that said failing companies were propped up BEFORE Jan 20, 2009 and were signed by the former Figurehead in Chief, and were voted yes by BOTH of the contenders of that position.