"proud to be an American"

[Gravekeeper]

It is his obligation to fight against it and try to change the country. That's pretty much one of the founding principles of the United States; that you can voice your opinion and change your country if you want to. I don't remember seeing anyone say he should join the military though.

It is not his obligation to change the country just so he can be treated equally as a human being. It is his country's obligation to treat him equally as it should all of its citizens.

[Hobbs]

What I am saying is, since that is not the case, he should do what he can to fight the injustice, which is what I see him doing. For that I applaud him, but for his hatred, I do not.

[Gravekeeper]

What I am saying is, since that is not the case, he should do what he can to fight the injustice, which is what I see him doing. For that I applaud him, but for his hatred, I do not.

But fighting the injustice from his position is futile. He's in the middle of a bastion of this sort reprehensible bullshit. This is the problem and this is why the attitude of "Well shut up and fix it yourself" is so aggravating. American politics is based entirely on this sort of polarized nonsense: Go for whatever gets the most votes regardless of how vile, insane or downright idiotic it is. Cus God says so!

Its why the whole country is sliding backwards in recent years.

[Hobbs]

I live in a Red state, doesn't stop me from voting against Republican candidates or legislation. My coworkers are predominantly Republican, but it doesn't mean I hate them for it.

MLK was from the South, and still fought racial segregation. It's only futile if you keep that mindset. Of course Utah is hell-backwards with religious idiots, that's kinda "well duh!" I would like to point out that, had he lived in a more tolerant part of the US, perhaps Smiley wouldn't have the images he does of other people.

Also, this is just an observation, but I've noticed Smiley says the term "fag" a lot. I'm curious as to why.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

But fighting the injustice from his position is futile. He's in the middle of a bastion of this sort reprehensible bullshit. This is the problem and this is why the attitude of "Well shut up and fix it yourself" is so aggravating. American politics is based entirely on this sort of polarized nonsense: Go for whatever gets the most votes regardless of how vile, insane or downright idiotic it is. Cus God says so!

Its why the whole country is sliding backwards in recent years.

The whole 'society is falling' spiel was kinda funny, for about two seconds. Believe it or not, society has never been better, life has never been better in general. People seem to forget how absolutely fucked up previous decades were, especially compared to now. They see violence and bigotry in the news and assume the whole country, the whole world is going sideways. They forget that there used to be more bigotry, more violence. There's always been a segment of society standing in resistance of the next step forward, quite often the majority, and in some places, everyone.

I'm not saying that the world is perfect and I'm certainly not saying this country is perfect. I'm saying it was worse before, and will be better in the future. It happens because people step up to the plate, most do so as smiley has done, against impossible odds. Over time, the odds get better, good things get done.

[Gravekeeper]

The whole 'society is falling' spiel was kinda funny, for about two seconds.

I applaud you extrapolating all of that from one sentence. But I have no idea what that has to do with what I said. By sliding backwards I mean during Bush's term your political spectrum became very polarized with the "Us vs Them" politics and now that you have a mainstream network that legitimizes the lunatics ( Fox ) they're coming more to the forefront. Some of them have even gotten elected to positions of power. Somehow or another. And as such more extreme views have become acceptable. As a result social progress is becoming rather mired in.

Of course society is better now then it was decades ago. But that's why smiley shouldn't have to spend his life championing for equal rights in this day and age. ;p

I live in a Red state, doesn't stop me from voting against Republican candidates or legislation. My coworkers are predominantly Republican, but it doesn't mean I hate them for it.

Yes, well, they're probably not damning you to Hell on a daily basis either. But at least we can agree on one thing: Utah sucks. -.-

[Wingates_Hellsing]

In that regard, yes, Utah does suck... really no point debating that :P

It seems to me that the US was always caught up in the 'us vs them' mentality, and in that we're far from alone. It simply went from blacks to gays, chinks to spics. But it's always been some against many, just with different names. Back then it was North and South, now it's libs and dems. I don't know about you but from what I see we identify as Americans first and foremost to a greater extent now than then. The sides are still bickering though, it's just far easier to see.

[elsporko]

I applaud you extrapolating all of that from one sentence. But I have no idea what that has to do with what I said. By sliding backwards I mean during Bush's term your political spectrum became very polarized with the "Us vs Them" politics and now that you have a mainstream network that legitimizes the lunatics ( Fox ) they're coming more to the forefront. Some of them have even gotten elected to positions of power. Somehow or another. And as such more extreme views have become acceptable. As a result social progress is becoming rather mired in.

America has always been very polorized. The only time that really let up in the political realm was during the Cold War when there was a common enemy. It goes way beyond Bush jr's term. Republicans blocked legislation and tried to get Clinton impeached over nothing for example. Way back in the day there would be riots and brawls in the streets on election day. Having a network that leans to the right (while all the rest lean left) is alot better then having hundreds of newspapers that where blatently for one party or another. The only differance these days is that it is easier for one person to be heard by many.

[Fryk]

Sporka is right. If you ever want a chuckle, look up some of the political cartoons in america from the 18th and 19th century. The stuff they got away with... sheesh

[smileyeagle1021]

Also, this is just an observation, but I've noticed Smiley says the term "fag" a lot. I'm curious as to why.

I use it when describing people's attitude, in which case it is a (sadly) extremely accurate choice of words.

[Gravekeeper]

Sadly, Bush & Co fostered the "Us vs Them" mentality so well that it becomes accepted so to speak. Bush made it OK to equal not being patriotic with being an omigawd terrorist basically. Its a similar problem with Fox News. People with extreme views might have kept them to themselves for fear of reprisal from their peers. But then they flick on their TV and zomigawd, a REAL news network is confirming everything they ever feared about liberalz, mooslamz and blackiez.

So the views become acceptable in the mainstream. Which leads to it becoming acceptable for politicians as well. Which leads to Michelle Bachmann. >.>

[elsporko]

I guess you didn't read my post. Political polarization is not a recent thing.

[Gravekeeper]

I guess you didn't read my post. Political polarization is not a recent thing.

Nor you mine, apparently.

[Hobbs]

I use it when describing people's attitude, in which case it is a (sadly) extremely accurate choice of words.

Ah, okay. My bro also said it's kinda "your word" like the N-word is. I thought that was the case, but wasn't sure.

Also, GK, its not just Bush etc that fostered this type of Us vs. Them mentality. Ever since the inception of the US it's been like this.

[McDreidel09]

I use it when describing people's attitude, in which case it is a (sadly) extremely accurate choice of words.

It is unfortunate that people use that word, no matter who they are. I don't care if someone is straight,gay,asexual,bisexual,pansexual,genderquee r, etc, just don't use that word.

Although, when I went to the Rainbow Alphabet Soup Conference, people used the word 'queer' a lot. Maybe that word is a bit more acceptable?