I don't care! Enough!

[Boozy]

Thanks, TPG. Some very good info there.

I guess I was under the impression that "redneck" was only an insult and not a term to identify an entire group of people.

For example, no one ever personally identifies with the word "asshole". You can call someone an asshole without someone else beside you saying, "Hey, that's offensive to me. I am an asshole myself. Collectively, we are a proud people!"

Anyway, I hope I haven't used the term redneck and offended anyone.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

I hope I didn't steal Rahmota's thunder. I'd be curious as to what he identifies the term redneck with.

Anyway, I assure you that you are not the first and will not be the last to have no idea that some people call themselves rednecks. I myself am of Scots-Irish extraction, and my father's family were Arkies and Oakies---they came out from Arkansas and Oklahoma to pick fruit in California during the depression, just like in Grapes Of Wrath. My father proudly identified himself as a redneck, even though he was college educated and worked for the federal government. He had a very earthy sense of humor, lived to hunt wild game, and was an accomplished survivalist. I was raised by him to be fiercely independent.

You must realize that the term redneck IS an insult. It's been used since colonial times and was intended as such. Celtic immigrants tended to settle in places like the Appalachias and do things like grow corn and brew moonshine. The more sophisticated, educated immigrants on the coast looked down their noses at them and called them rednecks. Their descendants have reclaimed the word and identify with it.

[rahmota]

TPG: Nah you didnt steal any thunder. You probably gave as good or better explanation as to why a person might call themselves redneck as I could. Especially hungover today.

But yeah Redneck is sort of a countercultural way of saying we are not like you we are us. We live by a certain code that includes some not so nice things, some stuff we think is nice but you may not and we are definately not urban. Its a way of kinda giving the finger to a society that has gotten too stifling and uptight about itself. Good ol boy might be another term to use but takes more letters and effort to say. and that term has some different conotations anyhow. As being a member of the good ol boy network is being part of the power base. Redneck is part of not being in the power base.

Also yeah it was used as an insult but by takign it and standing up to it some and myself included feel that you may have tried to insult us but we know who we are and without us rednecks working out in the hot hard sun the upper crust just might not be living so high on the hog.

For example I guess another word that I've heard used this way is the whole nigga/nigger thing. N--er is a deadly insult that will get your throat cut in some parts but n--ga is a term of endearment and friendship. The way one guy I used to work with explained it to me is about the way i explained the way redneck is. Its a way of turnign the insult around and throwing it back at the ones using it by saying yeah right whatever we aint gonna let you have power over us with this word we are gonna take it and use it ourselves. *shrug* dont know.

A lot of what makes it (either the N-- or redneck) an insult is how its used, the attitude behind the way its used and in some ways the crowd its used in.

Also to a redneck the ignorant inbred stereotype goes to the hillbillies. Even out here there is a pecking order. Although labels arent quite the same out here. A lot of it depends on your attitude and general behavior. Bsaically to ourselves we have good folk, bad folk and folk. Good folk are the ones you can trust, like and talk to. Bad folk are the ones you wanna feed them their own teeth. And folk are those that aint fallen into either category yet.

Whats really funny is I'm of almost pure german descent. The only others I have is some anglo and saxon on my greatgrandfather's side. (I am very distantly related to issaac newton throuhg a few convolutions) So take that for what you will as I am about as far from right wing as you can get and not be wrapping around on some things. I have some very liberal ideas, some very conservative ideas, some moderate ideas some off the wall ideas. I have a college degree, Yet I work with dirt under my nails and the college degree is shoved in a box somewhere in the stoarge shed pretty much useless to me. Aside from meeting my wives and my best friend in college it was a waste of time.

Anyhow I've been lettng myself slip into getting all riled up about what other people think. Thats not the redneck way. And yeah a little introspection now and again is a good thing letting it go too far is not. I am who and what i am. Like me or not based on what I do and say. I'm over thinking the problem as my grandfather used to say. I just need to back off, come at this from a different perspective and not worry so much about it.

I hope this has helped you understand where I'm coming from on this. It really is another world out here. So anyhow I'm gonna go try and sleep last night off some more.

[Seshat]

Anyhow I've been lettng myself slip into getting all riled up about what other people think. Thats not the redneck way. And yeah a little introspection now and again is a good thing letting it go too far is not. I am who and what i am. Like me or not based on what I do and say. I'm over thinking the problem as my grandfather used to say. I just need to back off, come at this from a different perspective and not worry so much about it.

I think so - and I'm pleased to see you saying it. I'm also grateful to Phone Goddess for the background information. That's helped my understanding enormously.

I think you, Rahmota, just need to remember that most people have no clue about the stuff Phone Goddess talked about: and that a large percentage of those who do know, wouldn't put the pieces together and understand that there are two entirely different cultures in conflict in that situation.

The USA really is an incredible melange of cultures, and the more I learn about it, the more surprised I am that you haven't torn yourselves apart from cultural conflict.

[DesignFox]

I do believe that many people are too sensitive. I also think that's where some of the "I'm such and such..." defenses come in- no one wants to be seen as a racist/prejudiced. It sort of becomes a vicious cycle.

I water my comments. I don't type half of what I might say to a person because I know that through written word it may come across as offensive. You can't hear my tone of voice through words on a page!

I also try to avoid including ethnic, racial or religious details of the person. Most of the time it has nothing to do with what I have to say anyway, but if it does, I don't post the story for fear of someone misinterpreting my meaning.

And sometimes- I really do want to make a joke or two. But I know it would hurt somebody (or someone might spin it that way). So, I just don't do it.

It's amazing how much writing what I want to say makes me think about the meanings of the words I'm about to use. Writing has a lot of power. Some people will always be too sensitive- so you're just bound to step on some toes. But, sometimes, when you really look at what you've typed, and you take a minute to edit it, and think about the hundreds of people who may read those comments- it makes you re-think those words. It makes you see how some of your own opinions may really be hurtful to somebody else- even if you don't intend them to be.

I think the problem is that some people don't realize what they are saying because they consider posting to be just like any other conversation... they don't think that it's any different- but it is... I've learned...it is.

As for me, I live by the idea that words only have power over you if you lend them that power. So, people can say what they want. I know who I am.

And, next time I think something may be going overboard, I'll try to make an effort to hit that report button.

[DesignFox]

The USA really is an incredible melange of cultures, and the more I learn about it, the more surprised I am that you haven't torn yourselves apart from cultural conflict.

You posted just before me, so I gotta come back in and say that you gave me a giggle there.

It's true- we are such a mish-mash. If you go to the north-east part of the country, it is VERY different from the rest of the country. New Jersey should probably just be it's own country the way we behave...

Down south, everything is different. I went to Louisiana. I was amazed. I wasn't staying at a tourist place- I was staying with real people. On their property. In the middle of no-where. It is a whole new world out there. People are very laid back. Things are relaxed.

For example, it can take you 20 minutes to get food at Burger King. Up here, that's unheard of!

Out west, in California, (or at least the San Jose area where I was staying) people actually stop for pedestrians in a cross walk. My friend even yelled at me for wearing a particular shirt I owned- it was from that joke 7-up commercial where the front says "Make 7" and the back says "Up Yours." I thought the commercial was hiliarious- I loved that t-shirt. But he told me, "People aren't like that here." He shamed me into wearing my sweatshirt over that in 70-80 degree heat!

And at one time- we did have a civil war. We did nearly tear ourselves apart.

I like to think that era is far passed... I think it's interesting that we tolerate each other as different as we all are. I don't think things are as inflammatory as some conversations can make them out to be...or at least I haven't gotten that impression in my travels. People overall are way too sensitive...but I think those are just the loud minority. I hope anyway....

[ArenaBoy]

The USA really is an incredible melange of cultures, and the more I learn about it, the more surprised I am that you haven't torn yourselves apart from cultural conflict.

Like Designfox said, every region of the country is incredibly different. In the midwest and northeast (With the exception of New York) region, people are more or less welcoming yet hard working and expect things to be done on time. Whereas out west people tend to be more relaxed and easygoing. It's amazing how different the areas are. When I was down south last summer I had people being polite to me while I was driving, doing things such as letting me into their lane etc. It's unheard of in my state.

As for people and reacting, I try my hardest not to take offense. Like I said people need to grow a thick skin. I have no problem with a story that starts with: I got a call from this person who lived out in the country and had no idea that he didn't plug his computer in. However when the story goes like this: I swear all those people who live out in the country must be stupid. Then it's right to take offense. Simply, if it's a part of the story; READ THE DAMN STORY and don't take offense.

[Seshat]

I have no problem with a story that starts with: I got a call from this person who lived out in the country and had no idea that he didn't plug his computer in. However when the story goes like this: I swear all those people who live out in the country must be stupid. Then it's right to take offense. Simply, if it's a part of the story; READ THE DAMN STORY and don't take offense.

That's pretty much one of my guidelines when modding. If the story talks about this particular person, and says that that one person was acting stupid (or mean, or whatever); I'm cool with it. If the poster generalises from that one person and says that all Xs are stupid (or mean, or whatever); I'm not cool with it at all.

Unfortunately, where the post is ambiguous or the 'all X are Y' is inferred (by me or by someone hitting the report button), it's more of a judgement call. Just because you or I infer a generalisation, it doesn't mean the original poster intended to imply the generalisation.

But that's where writing carefully comes in. DesignFox is right: if anyone can infer a generalisation from what you write, it's almost certain that someone will. If you write ambiguously, it's almost certain that someone will read it the way you didn't mean it.

Mods really appreciate people who write carefully.

[rahmota]

Seshat: yeah I've been having some interesting issue in the real world. Happens a lot this time of year but for some reason been happening a lot more this time of year. And on top of that theres this vague sense of unease abut the world in general and more personally a sense of feelign adrift or not quite in control of my own life. Not sur what exactly is going on there but its kinda led me down some paths that aint where I want to be as a person. I'm getting back to getting my sheet together but its taking some time. And I'm not wanting to say this as some sort of cop out.

And yeah its a ddifferent country just between urban and rural too. Not just the big thingof the regions. i go down to cincinnati and its a different enough culture that I'm the fish out of water. Not as bad I'm sure as if I went to New York or something but still. Urban vs rural north v south east vs west. It is amazing we havent had more anarchy than we have since the civil war. Oh well theres still time...

Arena:

a story that starts with: I got a call from this person who lived out in the country and had no idea that he didn't plug his computer in.

Okay and how is that better than this: I got a call from this guy and he had no idea how to plug his computer in! Still gets the story told and yet doesnt say anything that could be misinterpreted or is really nonessential. Doesnt matter if hes country or urban, martian or human even.

[CancelMyService]

I for one think describing the person involved in the topic at hand helps paint a picture, takes you to the moment if you will. If people stop being descriptive out of fear of offending people then every post becomes bland and monotonous. If I start a post with "I ran into a real idiot today, he was this fat southern guy and....blah blah" I'm not saying all southern guys are fat and stupid, just that THIS GUY happened to be that way.

Personally, as someone of Irish descent, I have a soft spot for what's known as "redneck" culture. After all, most country comes from bluegrass and that derived from Celtic music. Where do ya'll think you got the whole fiddle thing from?

[rahmota]

Cancel: yeah that is true. The proper adjectives can help paint a picture. Some people do overdo it a bit though. And some times it gets a bit irritating. And sometiems I or others may overreact.

Bah I'm starting to sound like one of those political correctness manual. Need to reimerse myself in some coutry culture...whares tha bottle? It'll work out in the end. It usually does.

And definately Celtic culture runs throuhg the hills of appalachia like the rivers do. Same with the German or Deutch as the Amish call themselves. And you just named three of the top forms of music I listen to: Country, Blurgrass, and Celtic (Gaelic Storm Rocks!) Only thing I listen to more is rock and that even grew out of a fusion of blues and southern country/rockabillie.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I personally don't see the harm in using racial terms to paint a picture in a post. It only gets to be a problem when generalisations are made.

Over here, it's not "redneck" that's used, it's "chav". Some people have a problem with that word, but I will stress that I know a lot of people who dress trendily who are not chavs. It's not just a visual stereotype, it refers to a person's behaviour and attitude, too.

As for being offended, I take great pride in my personal label "freak" and have been known to sling back "normal!" at people who label me that. XD I often say "for the love of cheese!" or "for cheese's sake!" rather than "for the love of god!" or "for god's sake!". Am I being cheesist? O_o