The black sheep

[AdminAssistant]

I have zero respect for people who willingly engage in illegal activities in the same house as their children. It doesn't matter how much you think it should be legal, it isn't. If you can't give up your habit for the safety and welfare of your kids, then that's selfish. Doesn't matter if you wanted them or not.

Quite frankly, I often wish that my dad would have really left all those times he threatened to. That would have been better than growing up with a bitter alcoholic with a victim/martyr complex.

[Plaidman]

Quite frankly, I often wish that my dad would have really left all those times he threatened to. That would have been better than growing up with a bitter alcoholic with a victim/martyr complex.

Which is what I'm afraid is going to happen in the above case.

[Hobbs]

Wrong.

Look at it this way: When our house caught fire, do you know what my first thought was? Not my computer. Not my video games. Not my pot. Not my cigarettes. Not my guitar. Not my multitracker. My first thought was I need to get the kid out of the house right now.

Fair enough? Want to make up some bullshit about that too? Let me grab my boots.

That's commendable. But there are times, even in battle, when someone will do something heroic for less-than admirable reasons. I'm with Plaid...you'd probably take the blue pill.

[Ree]

They way I see it, if a man isn't all that into his kids, then he shouldn't be forced into it.

That's when he should get the fuck out of their lives so they can at least live without the knowledge that their main male role model is only going through the motions because it's expected of him, and they have a chance to end up with someone who loves them unconditionally, and not just when they act like they deserve it, or it makes daddy feel good to be nice to them.

Big freakin deal that you would rescue them from a fire before your other diversions that you actually seem to value above them. That's not a sign of a good father...that's just being a decent human being.

[DrFaroohk]

lol.....so no matter what I do, I just can't seem to win can I? Everyone will find fault with whatever I do. I leave, I'm a bastard. I stay, I'm a bastard. I save their fucking lives and I'm a bastard.

You people are just fucking amazing. I've never met a more obtuse bunch in my life. It doesn't matter what I say here anyway. People are determined to read what I say and twist it to whatever they wish it to mean. I guess that's what the world has been reduced to.

Aye.

[Hobbs]

Sadly, the world has been reduced to people like you, who only see how bad things affect themselves. Ree is right on the money, you're only going through the motions.

[Plaidman]

I wouldn't see you as a bastard for leaving your kids. Some might say so, and some may think. But if you don't love them, or care for them, and only go through the motions of pretending to care, then yeah. They do deserve someone who can love them. Who can care for them. Someone who love them for them being them. They are their own person. They are their own uniqueness. They may not have the same intrests as you, but you should at least try to understand them on that, rather then just ignoring them or hating them becasue you don't give a shit.

My mom doesnn't have an imangation. She doesn't understand why I love fantasy so much. But rather then just ignore it, she push me towards it as a strength. She bought me fantasy books. Fantasy art. It may never been her intrest, but she still loved me.

[Ree]

lol.....so no matter what I do, I just can't seem to win can I? Everyone will find fault with whatever I do. I leave, I'm a bastard. I stay, I'm a bastard. I save their fucking lives and I'm a bastard.

LOL...this is a debate site.

You're going to get 100 different opinions and points of view from 100 different people.

Of course they're not all going to be exactly the same thoughts as yours, and not everyone is going to agree.

Of course there is going to be contradiction.

If you don't like the heat, don't turn on the stove.

My personal opinion was that by staying and only going through the motions, you do them more harm.
Kids aren't idiots. They sense resentment and they know when they aren't wanted.

You aren't a bastard for saving them from a fire instead of your pot or computer, or whatever, but you aren't a damned Father of the Year winner, either.
That's all we're saying, I think.

[blas87]

Personally, no matter how bad it may seem to walk away, I'd say, I'd rather be raised by a dad (or other male) who loved me and actually wanted to spend time with me and raise me, than some guy who never wanted me to begin with and only stayed because he felt it was the right thing to do.

[gremcint]

Seriously, everyone here is saying he's a bad guy for accepting the consequences of his actions?

He had a kid, he could have walked away and washed his hands of the situation but he chose to stay, he chose to put food on the table, he is putting the kid first just by being there. Heck he even helps take care of someone else's kid. He could have walked away but instead he stayed and is doing his part. The kid may realize he isn't happy but she'll do it with clothes on her back and food in her stomach.

How many times on this board have we commented on parents who don't support their children and called them deadbeats and now everyone is telling Dr that he should be a deadbeat?

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Excellently said gremcint. This really is a perverse catch 22.

Fathers who skip out on their responsibilities are deadbeats, Dr F and fathers who rise to the occasion and handle their responsibilities are deadbeats because they aren't entirely hugox happy about every single aspect of it.

I guess that eliminates every family except the Beavers, hell, maybe even them.

[Plaidman]

Because kids deserve LOVE. Something he has none of for them. Deadbeat fathers may be scum, but only those who don't give child support. We can overcome that. (Despite me never having contact with my dad until recently, he still paid child support).

The difference is that Dr doesn't care about his kids. He just going through the emontions of pretending to be a dad. If stepson becomes intrested in something Dr doesn't, he won't even try to be involved. He already doesn't do it now, what going to happen when he is a preteen? Teenager? Completly ignore them? That's far worst. A male role model in the home that just puts food in the home. That's it.

If he left, there is a far better chance that someone could come along and, you know, love the kids?

[Wingates_Hellsing]

First: that's IF someone comes along.
Second: Dr. F has explained quite rationally and specifically that he does have genuine affection for said children. His responsibility is one of the reasons he stayed, not the only one.
Third: In several of the instances Dr F's hand has clearly been forced by the circumstances.

He's explained all of this quite cogently, yet several people simply continue groaning on about how horrible he is while in no way discussing his explanations or even really acknowledging them.

[Hobbs]

Seriously, everyone here is saying he's a bad guy for accepting the consequences of his actions?

He had a kid, he could have walked away and washed his hands of the situation but he chose to stay, he chose to put food on the table, he is putting the kid first just by being there. Heck he even helps take care of someone else's kid. He could have walked away but instead he stayed and is doing his part. The kid may realize he isn't happy but she'll do it with clothes on her back and food in her stomach.

How many times on this board have we commented on parents who don't support their children and called them deadbeats and now everyone is telling Dr that he should be a deadbeat?

We're not saying he's a bad guy for accepting that. We're saying he's a bad guy for treating his kids like a burden rather than a gift. Yeah, parenthood isn't a joy all the time, but by the looks of it, he'd rather not have to deal with it at all. Staying around b/c it's his "duty" won't be good for anyone in the long run. He'll come to resent the children (if he doesn't already) and the children will, in turn, think they're nothing but a burden and a hassle to them. It's not just material commodities children need; they need nurture as well as nutrition.

[Plaidman]

Really? I seen several posts where he has pretty much stated he hates his stepson. Never seen a love or even a like. Just he hates it. He loves his daughter sure, when he doesn't have to take care of her. He complains about his wife, but has stated he loves her, sometimes. (Normally this is all typed in hindsight like he has to force himself).

I can admire the fact that he would save the kids over the pot. But he isn't a father of the year. He doesn't want the kids. Even has stated he'd love to say fuck you to them and leave.

And yeah, his hands been forced into it. Well, thats what happens when you have sex. Even protected sex can have kids. He knew the risks, and still decided to go through with it. He belived his wife when she said she took it, and hey, sometimes woman do forget. Yes, sex does feel different from condoms and such. But that would still help. Its not 100 percent. But alot.

He a good father in the fact that he pays bills. He has no intrest in spending time with them. No intrest in what they have intrests in. All he wants is them out of his hair the whole time. That is what I have beef with. I hate people, who have families and loved ones, that do nothing for them emontionally.

Your so damn lucky to have kids. So damn lucky to have a wife or husband that loves you. Yet, you don't want anything to do with it? You have any idea how many people in this world that would fucking MURDER to have that? But hey, its not good for him. It takes away his time to smoke weed and play games. Really sucky.