What's going on at CS, lately?

[DesignFox]

I don't know if it's just me, but I've noticed a lot more thread shutdowns recently.

People seem to have gotten either very aggressive or overly sensitive over at CS. I mean, if someone doesn't agree with the opinion of someone else, or someone tries to give another person advice, things just seem to blow up!

What the hell? I thought we were all on the same team?!

I don't understand why some of the members get all bent out of shape when they post their situations on a public forum and someone disagrees with something they did. Geez. I thought the whole purpose was to get varying opinions on the subject, take a minute to vent and learn how to handle situations better in future.

Am I crazy? I just feel like a see "thread closed" more often than when I first started...(I do have a tendency to read them to see why it was closed down, but that might stop because it's getting kind of depressing).

It's just making me sad, because the respect we have for one another is what makes CS stand apart from other online communities. I really don't want us to lose that.

[ArenaBoy]

It's not just you because I've noticed it. Some posters tend to disagree with EVERY and I mean EVERYTHING. There could be data provided and it could be backed by the most respected source and they'd still disagree. There are also posters who are oversensitive to a point that even a simple hello might set them off. From most forums I post on there many people who just read the post and fire off what's on their head instantly. Really all it takes is the following: Read, breathe, think and I mean think, then reply.

But take heart though, those posters will end up either A: A moderated poster and from what I've noticed most of them never come back. or B: Banned. All I can say is as long as we just keep to what makes the site great

[Rapscallion]

We got more popular after the hits from Reddit and Fark, as well as the continued interest from StumbleUpon. Most of the people that logged in from that are normal people, but not all. Also, what gets linked on those sites gets linked on others.

We do what we can to steer conversations back to where it's safe, but sometimes the water gets too turbulent. Closing threads does mean more people look at them to see what went on, which serves a more public purpose than deleting them. Usually the original post is fine and it got taken off the rails by others.

Sometimes people take the hints we drop. When they don't, we have to act. I just wish we didn't have to.

Rapscallion

[Ree]

I think we are getting a lot of newer members with pretty radical ideas about the customer as the enemy...period!!!

That is not meshing well with the 'regulars' who have been around and know that we are about a lot more than just bashing customers for the sake of bashing them.

The majority of our members know that there are also sucky employees, and a lot of these newer people fall into that category, but don't want to admit that.

They are hotheads, and to be honest, it's their own attitudes that create the problems they are venting about.
Yes, the site is for venting, but as I said earlier today in one of the threads, just before I closed it, we are not going to sit by and let that type of stuff go uncorrected. If we can help the person to see that small changes in their attitude or approach can make things easier for them in the end, then we are going to do just that.

Because, as I said, they are hotheads, that doesn't sit well with them either, and, not knowing that this place is not run like other forums, they go on a defensive rant and strike out.

We only close a thread if we cannot see any type of resolution to get it back on track. If, after a mod has stepped in, we continue to see more posts harping on the points, that's when we hit it with the closed button.
We only do it as a last resort, and we never do it lightly.

[DesignFox]

Well, I appreciate you doing it. I'm not appalled by the moderators' actions- I'm appalled by the behavior of the people causing it!

And yes, I read the thread I believe you are referring to, Ree. I wholeheartedly agreed with your response, and I am very glad you wrote it.

I am one of those service people that genuinely enjoys working with the public. I think that if someone dislikes people that much, they shouldn't be working in retail. It's the few people like that that make the rest of us look terrible. I don't like to give people any reason to feel like they should treat service workers like crap...sentiments like that person's give us all a bad name. I also don't want to see the CS site degrade into that...If that many people are reading our stories and visiting, I want them to see how genuine, real people try to cope with their very real and difficult jobs. I want customers to see us as humans and take us seriously- not add fuel to the sucky person's fire. I truly believe that people are good, and that some people, when called on their rudeness, genuinely see the error of their ways and change.

I guess it just upsets me to see so many people coming to the site with such poor attitudes. I'm glad it is being taken care of, and I hope the tide will turn back to normal soon enough. I also hope that if any non-retail customers are reading it, they will see that we service workers do not condone suckiness from fellow employees!

[AFPheonix]

It may very well be the time of year, too. We're just out of the Christmas rush, those of us in health professions are dealing with full swing cold-and-flu, and I'm sure seasonal affectedness disorder is running rampant amongst our more northern brethren. I notice I'm a little crankier this time of year, too.

[Greenday]

Even in that one thread about some guy who refused to pull over for the cops, then when he did, the cops sicked a dog on him and he jumped off the bridge, nearly killing him and killing the dog. Everyone says poor dog, which I agreed with. But everyone looked at him as just trying to kill the dog. I pointed out that if the guy just wanted to kill the dog, he wouldn't have jumped off the bridge. It was obvious he was trying to kill himself, and since the dog was trained not to let go, the dog went with him. I immediately got responses of hostility over that for being so sensitive about the guy who jumped.

When stuff like that happens, I just leave the thread and don't respond. Things will only get more heated by responding and then it'll get closed.

I have noticed that a lot of the new people joining are extremely radical with their posts and actions with customers. It's actually rather appalling, some of the stuff. Not used to seeing it. These seem to be the people that give the rest of us a bad name.

[BlaqueKatt]

I immediately got responses of hostility over that for being so sensitive about the guy who jumped.

I feel you there Greenday, I once made the "mistake" at a previous job of showing compassion for a school shooter-what they did was wrong yes I fully believe that-but how long did it take to get to that breaking point? How much torment-no one cares anymore-people have gotten too thin skinned where it doesn't matter(being offended way too easily), and too thick skinned or calloused if you will toward people that are truly suffering.

I think allot of it has to do with the "entitlement mentality"-and that just sickens me. Does anyone know or care about the kids in Nigeria that were killed by a large well known US pharmaceutical company? No we all just know about the scammers from Nigeria trying to steal hard-earned "American"* money. Maybe if we didn't flaunt our 5 tv sets, 300 channels of cable or satellite, $300 ipods, and $400 Ugg boots, while they don't even have running water or electricity in their houses-or maybe instead of getting that new mp3 player, sent the money to a non-profit that actually helps them, Maybe they wouldn't feel justified in doing it. Americans have allot more freedom than some countries, I just wish the freedom to be a self-absorbed, arrogant, cold-hearted, prick wasn't the freedom that many seem to be choosing.

sorry got kinda carried away in my half rant there-so I think I'll end with my favorite saying-

"The world owes you nothing, it was here first."


*I only sy American because they whine the most.

[horror]

To be honest, I've considered leaving CS.
I came over to Fratching a while ago but never posted. Today I thought I would skim the posts and when I saw this one I couldn't help but jump on it.
The way some people behave on CS is ridiculous, and I especially dislike the fact that some mods react to drama by responding to the posters like they're children. This "spelling out" of the rules, so to speak, essentially makes one feel like they've just been sent to the corner and scolded in front of the entire class.
Call me dramatic if you must, but it's no secret that the majority of regular posters are known among one another in at least some small way, so scolding a member in a thread is really a dick move on the mods part.
They want us to take arguments to PMs if we must, so why can't mods make PMs to users who have crossed the line, rather than making it public?

Not only that, I have a particular problem with the general demeanor of one mod. I find this individual rude, condescending and snide. But what am I to do? PM them? And then what?
Nothing.
Should I say something in a post when I feel like they've crossed a line like they would to me?
Of course not, because that would be diverting from the OP and I would promptly be told so and reminded that any other topic be brought here, to Fratching.

Perhaps not everyone who is modding should be modding. But that's just one little wee opinion that won't change anything.

Overall posting on CS and even reading CS has become far less enjoyable, mostly due to the people's attitude. I think people should either shape up or ship out (or be forced out).
Personally I seem to be leaning more towards the "ship out" option.
Though I'm sure many will view that as an, "I'M NEVER SHOPPING HERE AGAIN!" remark. Oh well.

[Rapscallion]

Where do I start with this one?

If you have a problem with a moderator, you contact me with specifics. Actually, that was an easy start.

Why do we sometimes tell people in public? I've just come over from CS where we told someone via PM and requested a 'read receipt' - they haven't even bothered checking their PMs over the last two weeks. This is not uncommon.

Spelling out the rules in public? As above, people don't often read the rules or PMs sent, but also it serves as a good reminder to others as to why we say something.

Regular posters? Sure, they're known to each other. Ever wondered how many people aren't established and regular? We average roughly five new registrations per day. Most don't post, some do, and a few stay with us to become regular posters - churn happens.

Thread drift happens to take topics off topic, which isn't so bad. If you see a thread with a Fratching warning in it, it's something we know that's going to end up in a fight.

As to the rules themselves, I do intend trimming them down. Their very size puts people off reading them. However, the moderators are there to steer people towards following the rules, and if they don't take the hint then they have to act.

Rapscallion

[Seshat]

And if you have a problem with Raps and don't want to bring it up to him, talk to one of us mods. Raps knows that everyone - including him - makes mistakes at times, and he respects us mods and will listen to us.

That said, ultimately it is Raps' bat and ball. If you have a problem with the fundamental aspects of Customers' Suck and/or Fratching, maybe you'd enjoy some other part of the net better.

But if you like what CS and Fratching are about, but just think we could be running it better: we're willing to listen, and we will discuss concerns that are brought to us. We will change the rules or the way we work if we think the new idea is better; and we do accept that we're all human and could do things better. Okay?

[horror]

Why do we sometimes tell people in public? I've just come over from CS where we told someone via PM and requested a 'read receipt' - they haven't even bothered checking their PMs over the last two weeks. This is not uncommon.

Spelling out the rules in public? As above, people don't often read the rules or PMs sent, but also it serves as a good reminder to others as to why we say something.

Some people also don't check back threads for some time after they've said their piece.
In all, I don't find it necessary to reprimand posters in threads. I don't know how many people will agree with this analogy, but would you want your boss reprimanding you in front of your coworkers or customers, or would you prefer that s/he do it in private?

And if you have a problem with Raps and don't want to bring it up to him, talk to one of us mods. Raps knows that everyone - including him - makes mistakes at times, and he respects us mods and will listen to us.

In all honesty I don't feel comfortable speaking to any of the mods, since there seems to be an ego with them, in that the way some (not ALL) of them post is as though they know they have more power than the rest of us.
I don't know how mods were chosen, if it was at random, by measure of longevity on the forums, if they're personal friends of Raps or what, but personally I wouldn't mind seeing some new mods around CS.

[Rapscallion]

Some people also don't check back threads for some time after they've said their piece.
In all, I don't find it necessary to reprimand posters in threads. I don't know how many people will agree with this analogy, but would you want your boss reprimanding you in front of your coworkers or customers, or would you prefer that s/he do it in private?

Even if they don't check back, it's not just for them. As to being unprofessional, I'm certainly not making any money out of this - it's hard to be professional when it's a hobby. Most of it is done in private, though - we only resort to public when we feel we have to.

In all honesty I don't feel comfortable speaking to any of the mods, since there seems to be an ego with them, in that the way some (not ALL) of them post is as though they know they have more power than the rest of us.
I don't know how mods were chosen, if it was at random, by measure of longevity on the forums, if they're personal friends of Raps or what, but personally I wouldn't mind seeing some new mods around CS.

The choice is made when we think we need more moderators due to turnover or increase in how busy the forum is. We discuss amongst ourselves who we think would be good based on their posting history, and then I make an offer to those we decide on. I won't force anyone to be a moderator against their will. Posting as if they have an ego/power? Some moderators only have time to moderate, not enjoy the site - so they're usually dealing with situations where they have to be a moderator rather than Joe Member.

As to making mistakes, I admit that sometimes I do. I recently wondered if I'd made a mistake buying and maintaining the site and I was seriously considering selling it. Of course, any new owner probably would put adverts on the board, probably wouldn't commission a weekly cartoon, but I'd be able to pay off my mortgage faster...

I'm not just saying the above to throw in your face that I pay the bills so I make the final, big decisions, but that is part of it. The buck stops with me, so I have to make the final decisions. I do however had a rule - I don't always take advice, but I will always listen to it if offered in good spirit. I admit that I'm an amateur doing this for a hobby - were I a professional, I'd be trying to make money at the job, and it would be a job. A second job? Extra stress.

I'll make you an offer. Start up a forum about something other than what customerssuck.com is about. Advertise it in Check it Out. Alternatively get on the admin/moderator side of a board that is different to CS. Again, you have my permission to post an advert for it in Check it Out. After six months, if it's an active forum, come back and tell me what you think then.

I moved from small-time forum ownership (a good day saw maybe fifty posts) to CS.com, which is far larger (currently getting roughly six hundred posts a day). The difference is astounding.

Rapscallion

[Ree]

I agree with horror that mods reprimanding members on the board is a dick thing to do.
In fact, it used to be the rule among the mods on the old board, when I was first appointed a mod by the former owner all those years ago, that we didn't call people out in public. If the members were expected to take it to PM, then so were we.

The thing is, many members feel as Raps does that the rules are too long, so they don't bother to read them.
Sometimes, we have to come across as looking like a dick to get a message across.
We could handle it all hush hush and behind the scenes in PM, and then that member knows what they did wrong, but then, often, another member will repeat the very same thing within the day, or at least within the same week.

Sometimes, it's the easier way to just post a message in the thread so, even if that member never comes back to read it, at least others, perhaps a newbie or two, will read it and know what not to do.

Often, if I make a public message, I do follow it up with a PM. Sometimes I just don't bother, or I forget.
I recall one incident, last spring, I think, when a member who had only been with the site for about a month, made a post and was promptly attacked by another member. For some unknown reason that member had taken exception to the complaint that the OP was making, and didn't feel the customer was being sucky, but felt, in fact, that the OP was being a total nitpicky bitch.

I chose to handle that one behind the scenes in PM.
The OP never had any idea that I had gone to bat for her.
I had so much verbal abuse heaped on me by the offending member that I was literally shaking after I read my PM's from her.

At the time, I thought, "This person doesn't even know me. Who is she to call me those names and say those horrible things about me?" I also remember thinking, "Holy crap!!! I come here for fun and because I love this site. I am, in effect, a volunteer, who moderates to keep this place that I love running smoothly. I really don't have to take this garbage."

The thing that hurt most of all, though, was that the member for whom I had gone to bat and had been treated so cruelly as a result, then turned around and trashed me not too much later, and has continued to do so repeatedly.
I am only human, and stuff like that hurts.

Maybe if I had taken my reprimand public, that member might have felt a little differently about me.

I have no problem with a member PM'ing me when they think I have acted badly.
There have been some who did approach me, and I think they were a little surprised that they got an apology from me. In some cases, it even resulted in a retraction or an edit to remove the comments.
In other cases, the member and I came to an understanding and I developed a greater respect for them.

I am not perfect, and I am the first to admit I make a lot of mistakes.

Like I said, though, I'm just a volunteer.

[MadMike]

To add to what Raps and the other mods said, an unmoderated board is not all it's cracked up to be. I've been to one.

It was a nice place at first, and I made a few friends, some of which I'm still in contact with to this day. Unfortunately, it was completely unsecured and unmoderated. There was no login, you just filled out your name and your message, so there was nothing to stop anyone from pretending to be someone else, which some people started doing. Then it went on to people trolling and flooding the board. Interestinly enough, we didn't get a whole lot of spam, if any.

Some of us long-time regulars tried to convince the owner to appoint moderators, and even offered to help with that, but it fell on deaf ears. Eventually, he just gave up and shut the message board down.