Bitter, angry women

[Rebel]

Don't blame the victim, blame the aggressor.

I didn't blame my sister for what that dick put her through, I blame her for how she reacted afterwards.
It's the men in her life that are to blame apparently.

As of this moment, my family hasn't spoken to her for about a month.

[blas87]

I would hope to gosh no one is blaming Admin or anyone else on here who has had to deal with that.

I would also like to hope that those who think differently are not insinuating that it's dead or battered womens' faults for what has happened to them. Because that's just awful.

You can't just wake up one day extremely self confident and full of self esteem and the world back at your fingertips again, ready to just send that asshole back to the Stone Age and out of your life. It takes help, support, and work on your own behalf. There are women who are strong enough to get away, and there are those who aren't.

Having said that, abusive people are extremely manipulative and clever. The guy who killed my cousin was a pro at that game. Is it her fault she's dead because she didn't get away in time?

We have many posts on CS about situations like this, not always involving death, but it's all the same level of serious. Anyone who would blame the person who gets battered or killed is as sick as the person who did it, in my opinion.

[crashhelmet]

I would hope to gosh no one is blaming Admin or anyone else on here who has had to deal with that.

I would also like to hope that those who think differently are not insinuating that it's dead or battered womens' faults for what has happened to them. Because that's just awful.

You can't just wake up one day extremely self confident and full of self esteem and the world back at your fingertips again, ready to just send that asshole back to the Stone Age and out of your life. It takes help, support, and work on your own behalf. There are women who are strong enough to get away, and there are those who aren't.

Having said that, abusive people are extremely manipulative and clever. The guy who killed my cousin was a pro at that game. Is it her fault she's dead because she didn't get away in time?

We have many posts on CS about situations like this, not always involving death, but it's all the same level of serious. Anyone who would blame the person who gets battered or killed is as sick as the person who did it, in my opinion.

I'm sorry, but in some cases the victim needs to be blamed. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" applies to this too.

All 3 of my sisters are in or have been in abusive relationships. I've heard every excuse in the book for what's happened or why they stay. Yes, the assholes are still assholes, but the victims are no longer blameless.

CH

[AdminAssistant]

I would hope to gosh no one is blaming Admin or anyone else on here who has had to deal with that.

And if you are, don't worry, I blame myself enough. But to be quite frank, I was 16-17 years old. My parents were dealing with their own shit, my friends either didn't care or were in similar situations.* I thought that whatever shit he put me through would be better than being single because who else would want me? Especially now that I've been treated like this; damaged goods and all. No it doesn't make any damn sense, but it happened. And it's not my intelligence; smarts doesn't have anything to do with emotions.

I admit to getting aggravated with my mother for staying with my father, but I do understand why she stays.

*There are some areas with such a strong culture of mistreating women that the only way to avoid it is to move. I'm sure blas can back me up on this.

[blas87]

Isn't it pretty harsh to use that old saying when some people have been nearly beaten to death or are dead because of it?

I'm not saying the victims are totally innocent and blameless, but it's a little harsh to totally blame them or take the attention away from what's been done to them.

It's hard to get away from an abuser, but it can be done. Everyone who is able to do so saves their own life and should be proud of themselves. However, some people find it harder than others.

There will always be woulda coulda shoulda. Sure, it becomes old and tiresome to keep dealing with a friend or family member that won't leave their abusive SO, and I can understand why some people cut off contact. I can totally understand and respect that. I just can't see the point in using clever sayings and making it all about the victim's mistakes when some of them pay dire, or even the ultimate price.

[Rebel]

I would hope to gosh no one is blaming Admin or anyone else on here who has had to deal with that.

<snip>

Anyone who would blame the person who gets battered or killed is as sick as the person who did it, in my opinion.

Again, I'm not blaming my sister for the abuse her previous boyfriends put her through, but she did have a hand in getting herself into those situations. In both cases of pathetic boyfriends, the relationship started to die after only a month of being together. Instead of breaking off the relationship, she dragged them to couples therapy. The guys weren't as involved in the relationship as she obviously was so they took advantage of that.

From the sound of it, Admin's was a completely different situation, and she herself has accepted her part in what happened. My sister hasn't. It's just a case of the men in her life being to blame. She has to date refused to accept that her own choices led her to where she is now, she's just become bitter and angry.
As for the absence of communication between her and my family, she has enforced it. She has a key to my parents house and is welcome back any time. But she refuses until we all apologize for her hard childhood apparently. The only house she is banned from is our older sisters house, but she is still welcome at my brothers house despite the fact that she publicly accused him of abusing her.

One of my older sisters best friends was killed by her abusive boyfriend. He's in jail now. Bis sis started up a facebook page to keep him in there and to tell everyone about what exactly he did (very horrific). My home town is smallish, and when he eventually gets out, there's no way he could return to his parents house. Very high chance of an unfortunate accident (not straight out condoning it, just stating fact).
The girl had been hit by him before, but chose to forgive him and stay with him.

The victim is not to blame for the abuse they suffer, but they do have to accept their part if they choose to stay. There is always help available, despite how much it doesn't seem that way, they just have to ask for it.

That being said, I think all abusers, physical or psychological, should be sent to jail, hopefully with fewer teeth.

[blas87]

I wasn't offended by what you wrote, or thinking you were a bad person for now ignoring your family member, because I can respect how people can lose their patience and give up on people that won't listen.

I just found it overly harsh that a few members here seem to think that the fault lies more within the victim than the abuser. That's scary.

[Rebel]

That's cool

I think I reacted like that just because I feel torn about my own families situation.

I think people tend to blame the victim because they don't fully understand how it can happen in the first place. And a lot of the time, their opinion doesn't change until it effects them personally (themselves/family/friends).

I kinda feel bad for bringing up my sisters situation, mainly because it jacked the thread a bit. But I just brought her up because of her negative attitude to men in her life now as a result of her relationships. She is a bitter, angry woman.

[Ree]

I would hope to gosh no one is blaming Admin or anyone else on here who has had to deal with that.

I would hope not, as well.

The thing is, I started this thread discussing women who blame all men because they have been hurt by a few, and it has evolved into a discussion of women making themselves victims.

Maybe the two are related, but that wasn't really the point of my thread.

(Not that I'm complaining.)

[Racket_Man]

I'm sorry, but in some cases the victim needs to be blamed. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" applies to this too.

All 3 of my sisters are in or have been in abusive relationships. I've heard every excuse in the book for what's happened or why they stay. Yes, the assholes are still assholes, but the victims are no longer blameless.

CH

AND until YOU yourself personally have been in that stiuation YOUR OPINION ie. blame is meaniless and moot. Yes the "victim" "amy be partially to blame but until you are actually under the thumb, gun, controlled, threatened, isolated, cut off, beat up, abused, etc. YOU WILL NEVER trully understand each persons circumstance and why they choose (right or wrong) to stay or not stay or end up dead or not dead or phyiscally mutulated.

the above argument sounds a awful lot like the old (and still used to this day) "let's blame the woman who was raped because she was asking for it" routine.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

You're really blowing this out of proportion. As if they're saying 'It's all the woman's fault' when they've gone above and beyond to clarify that they aren't. They're saying that a person who knowingly makes bad decisions is responsible for making those decisions. It doesn't override the scumbag in question's scumbaggery to say that the person who's consistently made the same stupid decision is partially responsible for their situation.

[Ree]

They're saying that a person who knowingly makes bad decisions is responsible for making those decisions. It doesn't override the scumbag in question's scumbaggery to say that the person who's consistently made the same stupid decision is partially responsible for their situation.

I do understand the reasoning behind the argument that a woman who is continually beaten down and had her self esteem lowered will continue to go back to the same type of relationship because that is what's familiar to her, and she has been led to believe that she doesn't deserve better.

That being said, I have a real problem with a victim mentality.

Isn't it just a bit fatalistic to say that a woman will never rise above that state in life because a man has beaten her down to that place?
There has to come a point when a woman decided that enough is enough.

Sure, there are statistics and anecdotes proving the premise that one lives what they learn, but there can be exceptions.

A person can choose to stop the cycle.

I do realize that not all are in the position to do that, and that mentally and physically, they may not have the strength to do that. I realize that not all have the resources and support to move out of the situation and start fresh, but, seriously, there really does have to be a point when we stop throwing our hands up and shaking our heads and accepting the situation as if there is no answer to it, and start making steps to change it.

[Fryk]

Just because person A is completely wrong does not mean that person B is not ALSO completely wrong. The only problem I see is when some people (not on this board) focus on person B and don't mention anything about person A.

[crashhelmet]

AND until YOU yourself personally have been in that stiuation YOUR OPINION ie. blame is meaniless and moot. Yes the "victim" "amy be partially to blame but until you are actually under the thumb, gun, controlled, threatened, isolated, cut off, beat up, abused, etc. YOU WILL NEVER trully understand each persons circumstance and why they choose (right or wrong) to stay or not stay or end up dead or not dead or phyiscally mutulated.

I may have never been in the situation itself, but I've worked with and trained many many women that have. I've heard all of the stories about how they got themselves in the situation, why they stayed in it, and how they got out of it. Whether you wanna call it "Battered Wives Syndrome" or "Stockholme Syndrome, " they still make excuses for their oppressors and blame themselves.

Let me tell you about one of my sisters. While she was dating her husband, everything seemed fine. He was the perfect gentlemen, etc etc etc. 6 weeks after they were married, he was arrested for domestic assault. He broke her hand and her nose. She refused to press charges, blaming it on herself for trying to discipline her step-daughter. She says, and I quote, "I'd rather have him hit me than cheat on me."

About 6 months later, after he has supposedly gone through anger management courses, they get into another fight. This time, she's just bruised up. No broken bones. What started this one? He was caught cheating on her with his ex-wife. She blames herself for not doing enough to keep him loyal. Once again, no charges filed.

About 9 months to a year later, they fight again and she gets her arm broken. This time, she decides to leave him. My brother, my nephew, and I drive out to Fresno from Vegas to pack up everything and move her and her daughter from a previous relationship out here. Every day she's here, she talks to him on the phone. 3 months later, he drives out here and moves her back.

Things seem fine for a while and then I call her see if she heard that our nephew had his first child. I find out she's in the hospital herself with a broken hand again. This time, the hospital convinces her to press charges and have him arrested. She does. Only to drop them a week later. I didn't even give her the opportunity to give me an excuse that time. While she didn't blame herself for the fight, she was still defending him and how great of a person he was.

That was 3 years ago. There have been more fights, they've been separated and got back together. I tell her I don't want to hear about it and that I'm sorry, but she has had MULTIPLE chances to get herself out of the situation.

These stories are only the ones that I'm aware of, too. There could've been many many more. She is not blameless. Her fears of a "failed marriage" do not absolve her of her blame.

the above argument sounds a awful lot like the old (and still used to this day) "let's blame the woman who was raped because she was asking for it" routine.

I'm not talking about single occurrences. I'm talking about repetitive ones. Where it keeps happening over and over again. Now if a woman is constantly getting raped, then just maybe something that she's doing is her fault because she's not changing it. Take a different route home, travel in groups, etc.

CH

[Red Panda]

Thats what I was thinking. A rape is horrible, but if, for example, you've been raped five times while getting drunk at a bar and trying to walk home then maybe its time to start calling a cab