People who have no idea what racism really is....

[DrFaroohk]

Being overly sensitive does nothing.

Except, as I said, actually empower those who actually are racist.

To me physical appearance is important because its how i tell people apart.

"hey, you know that guy who's really nice, and he's funny, and he's smart, but he's also a little full of himself?"

That's about six hundred different people I know.

"Hey, you know that guy who's black, tall, muscular, and has those two big ass nose rings?"

Oh yeah that guy!


I still say its only racism if its really, really negative. Just mentioning a person's race isn't racist. Discriminating is racist. Like "Aw someone stole your car? He must have been Chinese!" That's racist.

Just because someone writes something down doesn't make it true, anyway. I know a hundred people who would jump on me and write down "That's racist!" Why? Because YOU said it is? You can say whatever the fuck you want, it's still not racist. And back to my previous argument, the only person, the ONLY FUCKING PERSON who really knows if I'm being racist is ME. Everyone else can suck it.

An example to prove this point: Let's say you happen across me hanging some brown skinned dude from a tree. You might think "OMG He's racist he's lynching that guy!" That's what you assume, because you saw a classic example of racism.

What you didn't know, and can't know because you can't read my mind, is that he just recently stole my wallet and ran up a ginormous bill on my credit card, and when I caught up to him, he refused to pay up. It has nothing to do with his race.

[Red Panda]

Mentioning race when it has nothing to do with anything makes a point that race is an important factor even if it isn't. You can describe a person without giving their race.

Which is a better description

A: The guy with a three foot afro, five gold teeth, aviator sunglasses, weighs about 400 pounds always wears sweat pants and has a parrot on his shoulder

or

B: The black guy.


Besides, physical description is rarely important on CS at least. How does writing

"This black guy came in and tried to scam me" make a better story then "This guy came in and tried to scam me" other then reaffirming that those crazy blacks are always trying to scam people.

[jackfaire]

To me physical appearance is important because its how i tell people apart.

"hey, you know that guy who's really nice, and he's funny, and he's smart, but he's also a little full of himself?"

That's about six hundred different people I know.

"Hey, you know that guy who's black, tall, muscular, and has those two big ass nose rings?"

Oh yeah that guy!

But if he were white would you have said, "Hey, you know that guy whose white, tall, muscular, and has those two big ass nose rings?"

Unless you know a lot of tall, muscular guys with two big ass nose rings which is pretty specific I don't see how his skin color adds to the description.

No I am not saying it is racist I think it is more indicative of an "us" or "them" mentality. One that I don't really have personally so I don't tend to describe people by their ancestry. I go for unique descriptors to them skin color is no more a unique descriptor than eye color or hair color also neither of which I use unless I have described him as "the guy with the gorgeous eyes" in the past.

Tall is also subjective and only useful if the person your speaking with knows you. If your a person that is 6'3 then tall may mean 7'. I have a friend that is 5'2 and would describe me as tall, I am 5'7, but 6' friends that would describe me as short.

[muses_nightmare]

But if you have to dance around the point of that part of a description, it makes a bigger deal about skin colour than it actually is. I think the point a lot of people are trying to make is that it is in fact a distinguishing characteristic, and when describing someone it can and does comeup. We aren't colourblind , nor should we be. We shouldn't treat people differently because of their colour, but ignoring it also does more harm than good.

For example if describing a person if I said :

Oh the tall, muscular guy with brown hair and brown eyes.

That could be anyone, is that a good description? Does this person care what race they are? Will they be offended if you describe them as such?

Like "Aw someone stole your car? He must have been Chinese!" That's racist.

Yeah well of course it is, I never said it wasn't.

[Plaidman]

how does it do more harm?


Oh the tall, muscular guy with brown hair and brown eyes?

If person doesn't know, then add more

"He always jokes about how his wife beats him every night when he doesn't come home with the lottery?"

"He drives the Red mercedes?"

etc etc.

We aren't colorblind. Agreed. But when you label person solely by race as the only way to describe them is just stupid.

For your friends, do you introduce them as "This is Black guy Alex! He Black! The other guy is Richard! He's the Asian! Finally there is Randal, he's is the Russsian!"

[jackfaire]

But if you have to dance around the point of that part of a description, it makes a bigger deal about skin colour than it actually is. IFor example if describing a person if I said :

Oh the tall, muscular guy with brown hair and brown eyes.
.

I am not saying someone should dance around the fact personally I am saying the fact isn't very descriptive visual cues such as skin color, hair color, eye color typically have me looking at the person scratching my head until they give me unique features of the person, personality traits, how they walk, accent etc so many things that actually tell me about the person.

If someone telling you they are talking about the tall black guy with brown hair and brown eyes fills you in on who they are talking about cool.

To me that is the equivilant of asking me if i remmber that movie with that one guy.

Very few situations would I think to put the visual part first those would come last after all the unique features were used up and they still didn't know who I am talking about.

[smileyeagle1021]

For your friends, do you introduce them as "This is Black guy Alex! He Black! The other guy is Richard! He's the Asian! Finally there is Randal, he's is the Russsian!"

No, but I might describe a friend.
Me: hey, do you know Ben?
Other person: Ben... umm, Ben, who's Ben?
Me: He's tall, black, has short hair, used to be my roommate, you should have met him.
Other person: Oh, yeah, I remember Ben.

Now, how is that racist... I have had many roommates, a few who were tall with short hair... bringing in skin color is just one of many traits we can use to describe someone... yeah I could have said "tall, has short black hair, green eyes, slightly bucked teeth, and slightly larger than average feet." But why say that much detail to differentiate him when I know that the person who I'm talking to knows I've only had one tall, black, with short haired roommate?

[muses_nightmare]

Well just describing their race and basic features maybe isn't enough sure, but sometimes that's all you really have to go on. And when it is it's a pretty big descriptor of that person. It's never really the first thing I use to describe someone, but oftentimes it's in there.

[Plaidman]

Now, how is that racist...

Again, I never called anyone racist, just racist tendencies if they just go only by race.

[Red Panda]

Theres a big differance between giving a detailed description where race is important and telling a story where race has absolutly not bearing on the story.

A crazy guy walked into the store

A crazy black guy walked into the store


What does the word black add other then making sure everybody knows that black people act like this

[smileyeagle1021]

Plaid, I also never said that you were calling it racist, but I've seen many people take your argument to the extreme and said that any mention of race is racist... that we should try to not even notice it. I'm sorry, noticing race is not a bad thing, quite the contrary, it is what makes us different that makes us special...

[smileyeagle1021]

A crazy guy walked into the store

A crazy black guy walked into the store


What does the word black add other then making sure everybody knows that black people act like this

The way that's phrased, nothing.
But instead if it's phrased like.
This crazy huge black guy, seriously he was bigger than Michael Clarke Duncan except meaner than hell, walked into the store and started shouting at me, spittle flying everywhere.

That tells a much better story than "a crazy guy walked into the store"
*yawn*
There is nothing racist about describing someone and as in the above example, makes for a much more vivid mental image of what happened.

[Red Panda]

Why can't you leave the word black out of that sentence? It still is the same without bringing in race.

Would you say the same sentence with white guy instead of black?

[Plaidman]

I want to remark that I'm likely taking this too far.

After a life time of people judging me on what I look like versus who I am, I take it too far.

After hearing my brother and or sister crying on the phone how someone was following them around the store and not their friend, or how some people called them niggers, even though they're only half black, I take it to defense.

Same with my cousins of one aunt, who are all half mexican. They get yelled and insulted too, because they don't speak spanish, or various other insults.

Or my mom's ex who was very racist, with the idea of bonding with me with his first apperence was telling me a very harsh racist joke that wasn't even funny. Something about a black kid that gets white paint on him, and him yelling at black people saying he only been white for a few minutes and already hates blacks. I hated him from the start because it was constant.


So I'm sorry If I'm sounding unmovable. I hate it period, when people are simply judging, even labling someone just on HOW they look, and not their true selves.

Even a description of someone, if it isn't important in the context, just isn't worth it.

No-one should judge, or even describe someone based on what they look like. We need to get it out of our heads that our outside is just a shell, and by keeping the whole describing people based on what they look like in unimportant context, just furthers the whole Outside apperence is judged first.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

By that sentiment we should also never describe people's hair, clothes, or weight.

None of those may be directly related to the events described, but as Smiley pointed out, their inclusion makes for a much more vivid mental image. Some people, myself included, appreciate those details because we like to have the best possible mental image. Without that the whole thing just seems empty. I know on an intellectual level what happened, but I'd prefer to see it. To do that I need every detail I can get my hands on. It just so happens that I'm a visual person, sue me.

It sounds like you've experienced a lot of shit because people unreasonably judge you and others based on skin color alone. But something everyone has to come to terms with is that they do look a certain way, and that's going to factor into people's first impressions and mental images.

The assholes are going to be assholes whether I choose to include whatever detail their obsessed over or not. Pardon me if I refuse to let their jackassery get in the way of suitably vivid imagery.