People who have no idea what racism really is....

[Wingates_Hellsing]

No one ever said that they cared about what the race was, merely that the more details the better.

Some of us value knowing as much about what really did happen and who it happened to over potential daydreams. Race certainly shouldn't factor into right or wrong, innocent or guilty, but it is a part of what you look like, what your experiences are and, by extension, who you are. It's a detail, maybe not on overly important one, but a detail nonetheless.

[Plaidman]

No one ever said that they cared about what the race was, merely that the more details the better.

Some of us value knowing as much about what really did happen and who it happened to over potential daydreams. Race certainly shouldn't factor into right or wrong, innocent or guilty, but it is a part of what you look like, what your experiences are and, by extension, who you are. It's a detail, maybe not on overly important one, but a detail nonetheless.

And what does one's race have to deal with if their innocent or guilty in the story? If anything, it would pardon the word, but color one's opinions. If someone has had nothing but bad experences with said race, or raised to hate said race, then saying the below will have two different opinions:


1: So yesterday I was walking down the street. I saw someone being mugged, and I raced to help them. I got the mugger off and got a medal. Turned out the person I saved was also a person of money, and gave me a big check!

Now, the above would give cheers and support and woo hoos from several.

2: So yesterday I was walking down the street. I saw a black guy being mugged, and I raced to help them. I got the mugger off and got a medal. Turned out the black person I saved was also a person fo money, and gave me a big check!


Now some will respond of being a hero still, but I betcha that people that would have been oh for it above, would change their opinions. They may not post it, but they will think it, or will post it, and some opinions may be
"How do you know he was being mugged? he might have tried to steal that guy's wallet? You really shouldn't jump in without knowing what's going on"

All that, from one word of someone's race.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

So we should omit details no matter how truthful because some jackass might interpret them incorrectly?

I'm not responsible for the bigotry of others. Even so, the solution to the problem is not to stick my head in the sand and pretend that there's no such thing as race.

P.S. Also race would be an important factor in that story because the mugger (if they were white as implied by lack of specification) could be charged with a race crime and face more serious charges if arrested.

[Plaidman]

So we should omit details no matter how truthful because some jackass might interpret them incorrectly?

I'm not responsible for the bigotry of others. Even so, the solution to the problem is not to stick my head in the sand and pretend that there's no such thing as race.

P.S. Also race would be an important factor in that story because the mugger (if they were white as implied by lack of specification) could be charged with a race crime and face more serious charges if arrested.

Indeed. After all, no such thing as person own race attacking another race. Or that a mugger is going after someone strictly for t heir race and not their money.

[BlaqueKatt]

I think of it as a person that is green, or purple just for the laughs, because race shouldn't have anything to do with a story about a guy getting hit by a car.

just for my own amusement

invoke strangely colored people

"The invocation of purple, blue, green, or other alien people is offensive for many reasons, including but not limited to the fact that it's completely trivializing, turns a serious and painful topic into a joke, and compares people of color to fictional aliens."

[Plaidman]

Intresting article Blaqukatt.


On that note: What racism has anyone here dealt with anyway first hand?

Biggest ones I've dealt with was my grandpa, who pretty much declared he kill me or anyone in our family if they date a Japanese girl. Or any asian really, (except Phillipines were ok. I never knew why). He was a great man in alot of ways, but he had alot of hatred towards Japanese.

I've had some calls from my little brother and/or sister, about how some store owner would stare at them, but none of their friends, my little sister got kicked out of the store when she admited she had no money. (She was with her friend that was shopping).

My uncle was one of the worst. Always putting down all races, yet his best friend was Black. (I LOVED that dude! Only adult that ever gave me presents and would talk to me at my age).


My beef with Dr though, is his claims of using color only to describe race, but will not put up a description for white people. His defense of you should just know that I'm talking about white unless I say otherwise holds no beef. Not everyone lives in America. Alot of people live in other countries, where dominate race is Asian, or Blacks, or Mexican, or any other race. Not all people have a location under their tags. He might live in southern America. He might live in Hawaii. He lives in USA, and judging from the fact that he claims he is in a white area where only blacks commit crime, then it must be a Southern State.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Now you're really putting words into Dr F's mouth. Nowhere did he say that only blacks commit crimes in his area, that was your assumption based on practically nothing.

Furthermore, it's generally accepted that when someone speaks it's going to be within their frame of reference and for him and many other people that frame of reference is that whites make up the majority of the people you encounter and any one minority is, compared to all other ethnicity, an anomaly. It works the same way with anything else as well because people, in order to make their communications more efficient, identify a given and only specify when the situation is outside of it.

Further still I honestly couldn't give a crap whether or not you've encountered racist people, most people do (One of my uncles, one of my aunts, as well as others) but I'm not responsible for their thoughts or conclusions. If I were to say "I ran into this Buddhist guy the other day when I was out walking and he politely informed me that my keys were about to fall out of my pocket"* I'm NOT responsible for any fundie christian or what have you that decides to conclude that the man was an asshole despite his actions.

Why should I be responsible for the jackass conclusions of racists, whatever the color of their skin?

*this actually happened just a few hours ago when I was on my daily hour-long walk.

[Plaidman]

Now you're really putting words into Dr F's mouth. Nowhere did he say that only blacks commit crimes in his area, that was your assumption based on practically nothing.
.

Really?

Or 3: I live in an area with very few black people. I don't mention white people because its a given that the person I saw was white. It'd be like saying "This human being with two eyes, two lips, a nose, hair, two ears, two arms, and two legs came in..."

But if it was "This three armed man came in and...." because that's very uncommon and it helps to flesh out the story some.

Similar to the example above, its the difference between "this human came in and was mean to me."

or

"So this black dude comes in the other day - big motherfucker, too - and starts swearing up and down that we were out of Newports - and man was he pissed - tells me he's going to jump over the counter and shank me if I don't get on the phone to the manage right now and let him know what's up."

He states that there are only a few black people, but he notices that they are all the ones causing crime, yet never posts about white people. Hm.

Further still I honestly couldn't give a crap whether or not you've encountered racist people, most people do (One of my uncles, one of my aunts, as well as others) but I'm not responsible for their thoughts or conclusions. If I were to say "I ran into this Buddhist guy the other day when I was out walking and he politely informed me that my keys were about to fall out of my pocket"* I'm NOT responsible for any fundie christian or what have you that decides to conclude that the man was an asshole despite his actions.

Why would I think he is an asshole for telling you your keys are out? A random guy doing a good act. The fact he was Buddist has no part in that. He could be a Satanist. He could eat childrens souls, and it wouldn't have change the fact he told your keys were about to fall out.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Seriously, did you even read that quote you posted of Dr F? He says there aren't many black people where he lives, but nowhere does he say anything about all the criminals being black. That he posted a FICTIONAL EXAMPLE as a juxtaposition between not mentioning race and mentioning race (we seem to be using black for the purposes of this thread) IS FICTIONAL, how hard is that to understand?

Oh and remember your example, about helping a guy getting mugged. No sane person blames someone who you determined to be the one getting mugged to actually be a secret mugger anymore than someone being polite to me secretly being an asshole. Thing is, the people both of us are talking about aren't sane, that's why they say what they say and do what they do.

Again, why should I be responsible for their stupid, jackass conclusions?

[Plaidman]

I used that because he feels the need to write that this black person did X. He cannot just say Person did this. He must add their race. But not write white. You say I should just assume when he doesn't mention race that it must be white, but you go on to say you need details? That is just really, well, not being truthful. You need details when it isn't a white person. That may not be racist, but is sure can seem like a racist act.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

I used that because he feels the need to write that this black person did X. He cannot just say Person did this. He must add their race. But not write white. You say I should just assume when he doesn't mention race that it must be white, but you go on to say you need details? That is just really, well, not being truthful. You need details when it isn't a white person. That may not be racist, but is sure can seem like a racist act.

A few corrections for you:

1) wants to I think would fit better.
2) As I said, if white is taken as part of the standard of which we or at least he operates, to not specify is to default to that standard. Therefore, not specifying is exactly the same as actually saying "white". The same goes for tall/short/normal in that you only specify the comparatively anomalous situations because 'normal' is the standard. Therefore, I'm being truthful in that I want the details, it's just that because he doesn't have to say white for me to get the detail of white, he leaves it out in the same way as he would leave out normal. I'm getting the details, we're both saving a little time, everyone wins.
3) For people who are white and mostly interact with white people, their mental image of 'human' is probably white unless otherwise specified. This goes the same for every other race as well.

[muses_nightmare]

You say I should just assume when he doesn't mention race that it must be white, but you go on to say you need details? That is just really, well, not being truthful. You need details when it isn't a white person. That may not be racist, but is sure can seem like a racist act.

I've noticed that people will mention the race of someone who is not of their own race, and it doesn't just apply to "white" people. I don't think it's intentional, nor that it is racist. Not everything that has to to with mentioning race is racist like you seem to be assuming. If someone adds a detail like skin colour in, but is not focusing the story on said detail why does it matter? Why are you putting more importance than the original person did?

And to the OP:

I honestly can't tell the difference between "brown" people.

I have this problem with Asian people, with the exception of Filipinos (Though honestly I've mistake some of them for First Nations). I don't think that's racist.

And who you find physically attractive shouldn't have anything to do with whether you're racist or not.

[Jack]

sorry to pick on ya Plaid but aren't you in a creative writing class?

Use descriptive writing to make your readers feel your pain.

they actually have the reasons for doing it posted there-it's to bring people closer to the actual experience.

for example:
the horse ran through the meadow and sniffed some flowers.

vs

The golden-maned horse thundered through the lush green meadow and then it stopped. It bent its neck to the green grass and sniffed the sweet smell of the colourful flowers.

Late quote, but this exactly. On CS we write stories, not affidavits. We don't need to stick entirely to bare facts, which, after all, would make the whole thing a lot less interesting.

[smileyeagle1021]

I've noticed that people will mention the race of someone who is not of their own race, and it doesn't just apply to "white" people. I don't think it's intentional, nor that it is racist.
-snip-
And who you find physically attractive shouldn't have anything to do with whether you're racist or not.

I have noticed that too, and as to the idea of mentioning it because it is the non-default, I can completely understand that... in my lobby at the hotel right now is 12 people, only one is not of Anglican decent, and that's an employee... if a black/mexican/asian/whatever person comes in out of nowhere and bitches about a pothole in the parking lot, yeah, the fact that he is different than everyone else in the lobby will stand out and it has nothing to do with race or racism, just being different. Likewise, if everyone in the lobby is between 5'4 and 5'9 and all the sudden someone who is 6'2 comes in, yeah, I'm going to notice that they are one tall ass mofo. Conversly, same height for all the guests in the lobby and someone who is only 5'1 comes in, the fact that they are shorter than everyone else will be noticable. I'd fully expect if my lobby had 12 people in it and they were all asain and a white guy came in and bitched that I'd notice.

As to the second part, about physical attraction. The people I find attractive and Southest Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Tai, Philipino, etc), Eastern European (Russian, Slavic, etc), Southern European (Spanish, Italian, Greek), and certain Latin guys. Black guys, Middle Eastern, Indian, and multiple other groups just don't do anything for me. That in no way means I think they are inferior or wouldn't trust them to do just as good of a job as anyone in the groups I find physically attractive, or wouldn't be willing to be friends with them assuming we had common interests... I just wouldn't want to see them naked...

[Fryk]

... in my lobby at the hotel right now is 12 people, only one is not of Anglican decent, and that's an employee...

So almost everyone in your lobby is from the Church of England?

Did you ask them if they want tea and cake or death?