Fine print

[DrFaroohk]

There you are, watching TV or reading a magazine or just driving by, and you see an ad. "Awesome thing that's usually 100 dollars for only 10 dollars!"

So you go to buy the awesome thing, and it turns out that you only get the deal if you suck the manager's cock first. Cuz of the fine print.

That should be illegal. Why can't it be? It's only purpose seems to be for deception and fuckery.

NO MORE FINE PRINT OR CATCHES!

[Rageaholic]

Beat me to it

Amen

Companies can be real assholes about fine print. It seems that there are always hidden fees and other bullshit within the fine print. Despite what some here may say, it's pretty easy to overlook that stuff. Another example is commercials "5 easy payments of 19.99". Why not just say 99.95? If they did that, then people may not want to buy it, so they make it 19.99 times 5.

That bullshit should be outlawed. Leave the fine print for the legal/liability stuff, say the full price up front, and stop with the tricky language. It makes it easier on everyone.

[Plaidman]

While it does suck, that is why it's there.

Nothing is free in this world, and if it sounds too good, it likely is. So read the fine print.

You have no-one to blame but yourself, if you cannot take the time to read the details.

[DrFaroohk]

Yeah, I used to pull shit like that with my parents.

*whisper* "Can I stay up late and watch movies in my room?"

<no response>

"Well they didn't say no! Yay!"

The point is that it's deceitful from the start. It just plain shouldn't be allowed.

Too many people have been brainwashed into "well you should have done something to avoid it."

My right to not get screwed over supercedes any and all other rights that some company thinks they have. I shouldn't have to "look out" for jack shit. They need to advertise properly and be honest.

[Hobbs]

I'd really like to know who taught you similies.

Anyway, that's a completely different point. You're not screwed over if you do your job as a responsible grown-up and read what you're signing.

Guess what? I had to read a gigantic contract when I signed up. Most people just signed on the line, but I read it. Maybe you should do the same thing next time instead of blaming companies from not wanting to be sued because of people not taking responsibility for themselves.

Tell me; is it printed legibly? When you walk up to the sign you can read it all, right? If so, then they're not being dishonest, they're not deceiving you.

[Plaidman]

Yeah, I used to pull shit like that with my parents.

*whisper* "Can I stay up late and watch movies in my room?"

<no response>

"Well they didn't say no! Yay!"

The point is that it's deceitful from the start. It just plain shouldn't be allowed.

Too many people have been brainwashed into "well you should have done something to avoid it."

My right to not get screwed over supercedes any and all other rights that some company thinks they have. I shouldn't have to "look out" for jack shit. They need to advertise properly and be honest.

How is the parent thing have anything to do with this? Everytime the above happens, you tend to have to sign something, the writing is there. People just choose not to read it. So yeah, it's their own fault in this case.

I'm big beliver in standing up for what you belive in. But when it comes to something like this? Where you have something to get you a good deal, and it flat out states in the form that you are required to pay 12.99 a month for this deal, and you sign it? Usually right below the little line that states I HAVE READ THIS AND I UNDERSTAND?

Then you have nothing to complain. You flat out signed a paper that stated that you have indeed read it, and understand, and agree to paying those fees. No-one put a gun to your head to sign it. You signed it and agreed to it. Your only getting screwed over by choice if you don't bother to read anything.

And companies ARE honest. Thus is why the fine print. Nothing is false.

[jackfaire]

Another example is commercials "5 easy payments of 19.99". Why not just say 99.95? If they did that, then people may not want to buy it, so they make it 19.99 times 5.

How is this dishonest? If they are saying I have to pay 99.95 up front for it then yes they should say that but that isnt' the expectation. They are allowing me to pay them in installments.

I don't know of a single company where they allow installment payments that say, "This is the total price work out the installments your own damn self" they all say, "This is how many payments of amount x you nee to pay"


As for being brainwashed? Seriously? At least businesses have to do that fine print stuff there.

Individual parties that are "sooooo honest" don't have to do that in fact they can sell me crap and as long as they don't outright lie I can't even call them for fraud.

Businesses have to make me aware of every little detail. Which of course has to be annoying as hell. The fine print that is just the warning on the coffee.

9 times out of 10 when I read the fine print I find myself going, "Well duh of course that is the way it is."

[Rageaholic]

How is this dishonest? If they are saying I have to pay 99.95 up front for it then yes they should say that but that isnt' the expectation. They are allowing me to pay them in installments.

I don't know of a single company where they allow installment payments that say, "This is the total price work out the installments your own damn self" they all say, "This is how many payments of amount x you nee to pay"

It's not dishonest, it's tricky, and in some cases, borderline deceptive. I still don't see why they can't say the whole price up front. Sure, they allow installments, but I assume not everyone would pay that way. In the end, 5 payments of 19.99 is the same as one payment of 99.95. The only reason they advertise it as 5 payments of 19.99 is so they can show 19.99 on the screen, making it look cheaper. Legally, they aren't in the wrong, but it's still pretty tricky.

[Hobbs]

It's not dishonest, it's tricky, and in some cases, borderline deceptive. I still don't see why they can't say the whole price up front. Sure, they allow installments, but I assume not everyone would pay that way. In the end, 5 payments of 19.99 is the same as one payment of 99.95. The only reason they advertise it as 5 payments of 19.99 is so they can show 19.99 on the screen, making it look cheaper. Legally, they aren't in the wrong, but it's still pretty tricky.

Actually, I think it'd be kind of helpful if people were able to pay in installments. I mean, if you can only afford a $20 luxury expense in a paycheck, it would work out to your advantage. Five payments and you have your luxury, and you have it sooner than saving up the $100 it would take to buy it all at once.

[Plaidman]

It's not dishonest, it's tricky, and in some cases, borderline deceptive. I still don't see why they can't say the whole price up front. Sure, they allow installments, but I assume not everyone would pay that way. In the end, 5 payments of 19.99 is the same as one payment of 99.95. The only reason they advertise it as 5 payments of 19.99 is so they can show 19.99 on the screen, making it look cheaper. Legally, they aren't in the wrong, but it's still pretty tricky.

I know some people are bad at math. But every at this point should know that 5 twenty dollars (Because everyone can add up) is 100 dollars.


Never once growing up did I think OH! It says ten dollars! And never hear it saying ten payments ontop of that.

[DrFaroohk]

Well like for the "I have and read and understood this...." crap, say you're installing a program. Do you seriously read that whole thing every time? It's like twenty pages of crap! No one reads it. If you were just installing warcraft, or signing up for facebook, and clicked it, only to discover a week later that your entire life savings had been drained because "that's what it said in the fine print!" would you just think "Oh well, my own fault!"

Good example of a company bullshitting: I saw an ad on TV for a psychic network - ok, granted, yeah. I get it. I don't find that particular detail to be relevent. Anyway, they said "Call for a free 10 minute consult!" Of course I didn't call, but I knew someone who had, who informed me the way they do that is they give you 1 minute on 10 calls free. And if you get up close to your TV and read the fine print, yeah it says that. But they also said "10 minutes free", not "1 minute out of 10 calls free".

All I'm saying is it SHOULD be illegal to do that. I know it isn't, and that's how it is, but it SHOULD be illegal. People should not be allowed to act like that. It's deceptive. It's like the "gray area" of lying. Or lying by omission, or whatever you want to call it. Some people think that just because they didn't outright 100% lie, they're being truthful and did nothing wrong. Bull crap.

[the_std]

The government and legal system do not exist just to outlaw things you don't like. Just because these deals and the 'fine print' involve thinking and reasoning does not mean that they should be illegal.

What is your reasoning for them being made illegal? They are not outright lying, as you can find the information if you look for it. I'm not saying they're being honest, but they're not saying that it will be free, for sure, one hundred percent guaranteed, and then charging you money. That would be lying.

Look, the margins, that grey area, is always going to exist. Society will always have a way for people to make a living on the outskirts, right between truth and lies. Just because you make more laws does not mean that this area is going to go away. It's just going to change shape. And there is not nearly enough cause for the government to waste time and money on going after these people when they are not damaging anyone or anything besides those who will not take the time to look into something before they throw money at it.

[HYHYBT]

The most aggravating one I've seen, and I don't remember what exactly it was for but it was one I wanted to be sure and read carefully through, could only be read in a window much like this "quick reply" box, only it was only maybe five lines high and smaller text, and would probably have been ten pages if printed out normal-sized and single-spaced. At the end of multiple pages of entering information. Set up to kick you out if you didn't proceed to the next page within x minutes, with x being an unknown number but about half what would have been necessary to read and process it all even if you were allowed to see a reasonable amount of it at a time.

Worse, it turned out not to have anything surprising in there; it was just really long, and really not designed to be read.

[Racket_Man]

I am assuming that by fine print you mean that tieeny tiny print that TV commercials have at the very bottom of their ads or that "contract" that comes with your credit card or the fine teeny tiny print in a print type ad.

I believe that IS a legal requirment of the Truth in Advertizing rules. there is not a requirement that says how largeor small/the legalize/BS/terms and conditions/et. needs to be. the requirement is the IT NEEDS to be somewhere in the ad where it can be "read and understood" even if it is in 2 point type face and you have to use a microscope to properly read a print ad or a pause and zoom function to see those lines on a TV ad

[Rageaholic]

STD: I can't speak for DrF, but all I ask is that companies not make the fine print so confusing and purposely try to trick me and others into signing up for something we normally wouldn't. Sure, cover the details in the contract, but when it comes to the important stuff, don't make it so long winded and confusing. I'm sure not all companies are like that so it's not directed at all of them, just those who like to be tricky dicks.

Plaidman: I am good at math. I know at the top of my head that 5 payments of 20 bucks is 100. But it seems deceptive to put the price of one payment as the advertised price. When you go the store to buy something, and there's a pricetag below it that says 20 dollars, it's safe to assume the price is 20 dollars up front. It would be pretty crappy to see a price tag of 20 bucks only to have "5 easy payments" somewhere below.

Hobbs: I can see why people would pay in installments, but I can also see why they'd want to pay it all upfront and get it over with.

I just think it's annoying that there always has to be a catch to some good deal. The catch is always something you have to read carefully to catch, which can be a royal pain in the ass. Even if the companies are legally in the right by pulling stuff like this, I think they are morally wrong.