"The nerve of them" and more....

[Plaidman]

Let's say I see a girl in a lounge I think is beautiful. Since I don't know anything about her personality yet (whether she can understand what I am talking about, having the same or similar interests as me, etc....) of course I'm going to fantasize because the visual is all I have to go on at first. It's called being heterosexual.

Not all heterosexual's do. I belive you when you say you do. I belive it if others do. But not all straight males do that. Some were taught that everyone body is their own, and you have no right to treat them otherwise, which includes thinking them naked before you even know the first letter of her name.

[jackfaire]

You can imagine having sex with someone without leering. Just saying.

I didn't say you couldn't but as most people don't walk around with a constant poker face they usually give things away.

[BlaqueKatt]

A woman doesn't have to understand what he is saying. To most people (men and women included) when someone has a doctorate it means $$$$$. Or at least the capability to make it.

would you really want to have a conversation with someone-let alone a lifelong commitment with someone who's eyes glazed over when you tried to talk?

My friend James has a doctorate in chemistry-if I weren't married he's said he'd go after me in a half-heartbeat, because I understand what he's talking about. He and his colleagues(also PhDs) don't want anything to do with people that they can't discuss their work/their passion in life with-end of story.

[Racket_Man]

2. As a Jewish man....

One of the things I'm always being told is, "Why don't you find a nice jewish girl?"

Okay, I would love a nice jewish girl. I really would. Jewish girls are usually very attractive and have goals about themselves.

Sadly - and this was told to me more than once - that by the 3rd date many jewish girls ask to see your paycheck and if you can't produce it or you don't make enough for them, they're out of there.

I was in an auto repair shop once and a jewish woman was there with her kids, and this subject came up. She said it best: "It's because their mothers tell them to go for the gold, pretty much."

This can be evidenced by visiting a jewish dating site like Jdate. Like other sites Jdate has a section where you can list things you want in a mate. Many of those girls - who are not even in school or barely in school themselves - list that they want a man with a bachelor's or even a doctorate. If that doesn't shout out "I just want money," I don't know what does.

I told this to someone who snapped, "You self-hater! Man, they're such gold-diggers for wanting a man who has goals and is able to be financial stable. The nerve of them!"

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part of this problem stems from "traditions" and comedian type stereotyping

the most prominante one I can think of is from the the "golden age" of radio in the 30's with a woman named Gertruide Berg.

See here for a brief bio: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...aphy/berg.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Berg

Mrs. Berg played the quintisencial "Jewish Mother" in a show called The Rise of the Goldbergs (she played Molly Goldberg) on radio and TV
she also did a comedy album called "How to be a Jewis Mother" based on the 1964 book by David Greenburg.

If you get a chance listen to the album. very funny but with a LOT of deeper insights.

though I have not read the book, the album (which I own) calls upon all of those stereotyped Jewish Mother "techniques", phrases, and tones.

those stereotypes just keep getting perpetuated.

A former co-worker did marry a Jewish woman and he got the same kind of treatment from her family (she on the other hand could have cared less) ie. "OH what do you do for a living????" "OH NOT a Dr or Lawyer????" "AN accountant. that is nice (meaning it will do)" "And HOW much do you make???" "OH and a nice Jewish company to boot!!!!! ((((((hits jackpot))))))))"

[AdminAssistant]

See, I love dating a non-Ph.D. I talk enough about history, theatre, the meaning of art, Foucault, Derrida, and exactly what is postmodernism? enough in my daily life. I don't want to do it when I go home.

[linguist]

As I said in a previous post, I would rather date a smart 6 than a dumb 10. If I just thought of women as sex objects as you seem to think, I wouldn't care.

the fact that you seem to feel it necessary to rate a woman's attractiveness on a quantifiable scale speaks volumes as to how you view them.

[Boozy]

See, I love dating a non-Ph.D. I talk enough about history, theatre, the meaning of art, Foucault, Derrida, and exactly what is postmodernism? enough in my daily life. I don't want to do it when I go home.

I agree. My husband and I have similar education levels (although he has a post-grad degree), but I don't really care to hear about his work. He likes it, and that's great, but it's boring to me.

We talk about non-work-related stuff, and we both prefer it that way.

[Red Panda]

How does rating a woman mean anything other then you are able to compare something to another?

As for the sex by eyeball topic, its not that hard to tell when somebody is checking you out. The whole, waiting until you think I'm not paying attention thing and then looking directly at my tits and quickly jerking your head away routine isn't as effective as you think nor is looking me straight in the eyes and then quickly looking at my tits and back at my eyes. I can see where your eyes are pointing.

On the porn subject; I don't think any less of people who pay for porn, I do think its unneccasary since there are plenty of good sites that are virus free and offer variety. In your case its probably hard to find exactly what you are looking for, for most people who pay for random porn sites that feature pictures that can easily be found for free anywhere on the web I have to wonder why?

[Boozy]

Some were taught that everyone body is their own, and you have no right to treat them otherwise, which includes thinking them naked before you even know the first letter of her name.

People really can't control their thoughts, Plaid. It's what we do about them that matters.

I think it's awesome that you see past a woman's appearance and have a genuine desire to get to know them. That makes you a catch.

But some (maybe most) men have gut reactions to seeing a sexy woman, and it doesn't make them bad people. As long as HEMI isn't walking up to random attractive women and telling them what he's thinking, I see no problem with what he's thinking.

[Plaidman]

People really can't control their thoughts, Plaid. It's what we do about them that matters.

I think it's awesome that you see past a woman's appearance and have a genuine desire to get to know them. That makes you a catch.

But some (maybe most) men have gut reactions to seeing a sexy woman, and it doesn't make them bad people. As long as HEMI isn't walking up to random attractive women and telling them what he's thinking, I see no problem with what he's thinking.

Indeed some can't control their thoughts. Maybe they never learned how to, or they just don't care. My biggest beef is his generalization.
Tell me HEMI: Where did you get your degree in physcology? How old are ya anyway? I mean, how DID you manage to go and meet the what, 3.6 BILLION males in the world? I know that you missed quite a chunk of that here in Oregon. Other states too. Sure you say straight on top of that, so we can take away a MINIMAL of half a billion EASILY. That still leaves quite a chunk for you to state that all straight males automatically do the sex by eyeball thing. Just because you know quite a few males that do, doesn't not mean all do. It's a STEROTYPE your doing, not FACT. Just like it's a sterotype that all men think about sex every seven seconds. (Well, maybe you do HEMI, so remind me never to be in the car with you, or you doing open heart surgery on me would be a big no, even if you were with medical degree). All people are different in the head. There are people that can belive murdering others is the right and just thing to do. We have people that only eat vegetables because they don't belive in animals dying to substain them. We have people great with math, horrible with spelling. All people are different in the head and brain, and that includes doing sex by eye and not. We are ALL wired different. You feel its natural because its all you do. You think it's unnatural to not do so. I feel different, because I don't do that. I have friends that do. I have other friends who couldn't do it to save their life.

[blas87]

I hated being leered at. If you want to look, fine, I can't stop you (though there are plenty of guys I wish were blind, as rude as that sounds, since they can't seem to take a glance at girls and be happy with that), but for the love of God, if I see your tongue start making its way out of your mouth or you start breathing funny or start making odd faces at me, you deserve to be punched. I don't care if I'm in a gunny sack or a bikini, that's just rude. Stop it.