Unnecessary roughness

[Hobbs]

Plaidman, I'm just DONE arguing this with you. Nothing is going to assuage your ignorant view of prison life (as if you know what it's like). I'm really sorry you can't see how obtuse you are being about prison reform.

[Red Panda]

If prison is so great why don't you committe a crime and go there?


Alternativly, if your life is so horrible prison would be better please seek out some help for yourself.


Prison is a place heavily associated with BEING RAPED! What is your life like that you are jelous of people who are in constant fear of rape and race riots.

Murderers get out all the time.

If he killed an entire family I would think he is looking at life. That is at the least two or three people.

Also, this dude who killed an entire family and is getting out, you don't want to figure out a way to prevent him from killing more families? Thats cold.



My idea has never been that criminals magically deserve more. My idea is that we need to do everything to make them productive members of society because chances are they won't do it themselves. They don't have the means, intellegence, emotional stability, or some other factor to do it or they would have.

Let me ask a question, does your "No criminal deserves any help at all" attitude extend to pedophiles. Should we avoid giving pedophiles therapy which hopfully stops them from acting on their feelings, just because revenge means not helping people at all?

Another question, if you had the choice of letting a criminal go through an education and counseling program in jail, or letting him not do that and kill somebody you love, which would you choose?

[linguist]

Red Panda didn't. It's just a fact. Where do you think prison funding comes from? Taxes.

and? when one is a taxpaying citizen, it's a fact of life that one pays taxes on things one doesn't agree with. should i have been given a pass from paying taxes because i didn't support the war in iraq? you phrased it in such an inflammatory way as to make it sound like she said victims should be personally responsible for prison expenses.

What's prison life like?
Great healthcare, better then most out there.
Three meals a day, better then most countries.
Free education. Better then any strugging college student.
Free Gym. Great way to get in shape.
Movies/internet. Lots of fun there.

you didn't read my post at all did you?

ok, here we go again.

prison life is hard. and dangerous.

healthcare? barely adequate at best, when prisoners are even allowed access to it. often prison officials will deny treatment on what they consider 'minor' problems, until they become major problems.

food? the cheapest available. usually just barely fit for human consumption. yes they get three meals, but that's all they get. if a prisoner has his food stolen by another prisoner, which happens more often than you'd think, the first prisoner is shit out of luck until the next meal.

education and gym? a prison population working to better themselves, physically or mentally, leads to an overall reduction in costs and recidivism rates, and helps prevent prison violence.

movies/internet? movies only if they buy them themselves. tv sometimes, but it's a small one that's shared by dozens of prisoners who can only watch whatever station guards feel like setting it on. very rarely a prisoner may have a tv in his cell, but that was self-purchased, and is a privilege that can be taken away if the prisoner misbehaves. as for internet, if it's allowed at all (and it usually isn't) it's tightly rationed and closely monitored.

prison life is mostly boredom. it's not anything like the movie version of prison that you seem to think is reality.

[Plaidman]

If prison is so great why don't you committe a crime and go there?


Alternativly, if your life is so horrible prison would be better please seek out some help for yourself.


Prison is a place heavily associated with BEING RAPED! What is your life like that you are jelous of people who are in constant fear of rape and race riots.

Never said prison itself was great, just they have plenty of stuff there that is better then most can get otherwise.

Let me ask a question, does your "No criminal deserves any help at all" attitude extend to pedophiles. Should we avoid giving pedophiles therapy which hopfully stops them from acting on their feelings, just because revenge means not helping people at all?

Again. Don't act on it. People have impulses of all sorts. Most can you know, choose NOT to do it. There is already fucking therapy out there for pedophiles, some do that and don't act on their fantasis. Others choose not to because hey, it's just funner and easier to act on their fantasies.

Another question, if you had the choice of letting a criminal go through an education and counseling program in jail, or letting him not do that and kill somebody you love, which would you choose?

They had a chance to get an education. They blew it to go get high.
Beat some sense in them, and they be to afraid to do what they did again, and go back to school on themselves, and get a job.

[Red Panda]

If just beating sense into people works so well then why doesn't work? Why are there so many repeat offenders?

[Plaidman]

If just beating sense into people works so well then why doesn't work? Why are there so many repeat offenders?

Because prisons coddle them. People want to give them love and kindess. That's what happens in prison. Your given more chances and special treatment because you chose a life of crime. So no, that's not punishment. That's rewarding. Of course they're going to repeat what they did to go right back to prison, because hey, they aren't understanding, and have no empathy towards others.

Make them feel exactly how they made others feel, and they won't do it again.

[MaggieTheCat]

Make them feel exactly how they made others feel, and they won't do it again.

Do you have anything to back this theory up? Some kind of research that supports this? The reason I ask, is because there have been studies done that suggest that if someone is going to commit a crime, they're going to commit it regardless of what the punishment is. Either they think they'll get away with it, or they just don't care. Unfortunately, I don't have any links to such articles handy and I don't have time to look them up right now, but either later tonight or tomorrow I will try to find some.

[Plaidman]

If that's the case Maggie, then no amount of help will make them stop it. Kill them with kindness like others want, or beat him, it won't make him stop commiting crimes period.

[ZedOmega]

What business did the owner have stepping into a situation that the bouncer could've handled himself?

Let me explain: part of a bouncer's job is to eject unruly customers from an establishment. The drunk took a swing at the bouncer, the bouncer should've been the one reacting, not the owner. At the very least, he could've saved himself the trouble of dealing with a riot in the bar, the police, and all the paperwork. I'm not throwing out the possibility that this is a first-time occurrence with this guy. Of course, if it wasn't, he shouldn't have been allowed to set foot in the bar, anyway.

What should've happened was:

Bouncer: Sir, you need to leave.
Drunk: Fuck you!
(Drunk takes a swing at the bouncer, who puts him into a half-nelson whether or not the punch connects)
Bouncer: Sir, calm down! Sir!
(Bouncer starts sliding Drunk towards, then out, the door, with Drunk's girlfriend following.)

Not:

Bouncer: Sir, you need to leave.
Drunk: Fuck you!
(Drunk takes a swing at the bouncer. Owner steps in before bouncer can deal with the situation himself.)
Owner: GRAH!
(Owner destroys his own door with Drunk's head.)

[Red Panda]

If that's the case Maggie, then no amount of help will make them stop it. Kill them with kindness like others want, or beat him, it won't make him stop commiting crimes period.

I'm pretty convinced you're trolling at this point. You really think a person will rob another person even if they have a job and don't need to rob anymore? Or a person will lose their temper and go nuts after they're given anger managment therapy and possibly calming drugs?

[Plaidman]

I'm pretty convinced you're trolling at this point. You really think a person will rob another person even if they have a job and don't need to rob anymore? Or a person will lose their temper and go nuts after they're given anger managment therapy and possibly calming drugs?

Um. Yes.

People rob people for whatever reasons they want. People with jobs rob places. Famous people rob. People rob for the thrill also, not just money.

Calming drugs are assuming the person even takes it. Which most don't because their is no peneaty for them if they don't.

[linguist]

People rob people for whatever reasons they want. People with jobs rob places. Famous people rob. People rob for the thrill also, not just money.
.

name me a famous person who's committed robbery while they were still famous. not after they'd just about lost everything, like some of the child stars who got into trouble later.

[Plaidman]

OJ Simpson.

If that isn't enough, Maurice Clarett.

[Red Panda]

I believe the robbery occured after OJ lost pretty much everything

[linguist]

OJ Simpson.

i believe i said one who committed robbery before they had lost everything. at the time oj simpson committted his robbery, he was pretty much broke, and his celebrity had long since passed.

clarett also was over $1000000 in debt when he committed his robbery, and i'd hardly call him famous. i had to look him up to even know who you were talking about.