Unnecessary roughness

[DrFaroohk]

The bar I go to sometimes has developed a really strict policy against drunkenness. Whether you're causing trouble or not, if the bouncer sees that you're a little tipsy he'll throw you out.

It's a good policy in general, as they're trying to avoid trouble. Drunk people tend to get rowdy, and with the $15K pool tables they just put in, I can understand why they get a little overcautious. In practice, however, this just pisses people off, as it happened last night.

Bouncer tells a dude to get out, dude gets a little pissed and mouths off, takes a swing at bouncer. Not like he was going to hurt the bouncer anyway. Bouncer could have handled it just fine.

But no. The guy who owns the place decides he's feeling insecure about his tiny penis, so he has to run over, grab the drunk dude (who can barely stand as it is) and throw him through a door. A solid wooden door. Smashes the door to bits. Then the owner picks the dude up again and throws him like a stuffed animal right into a wall. Not a shove, a throw. Like the dude weighed nothing.

I'm surprised he was able to get up and didn't just die on the spot. Hit his head HARD off that wall.

Anyway my point is it was completely unnecessary. The bouncer had it under control and if the owner had stayed out of it, things might have played out a little less intensely, instead of all the drunk guy's friends starting a fucking riot, getting the cops there, emptying out the bar and ruining karaoke night.

[blas87]

He probably felt since the guy was so drunk, he wouldn't feel it. Most drunks can't feel it when they fall down and hurt themselves.

I have almost zero tolerance/patience for drunken fools making scenes and being obnoxious, but I do feel that literally throwing people out of a bar (like throwing them onto the pavement outside) is way too rough. Get them out the door, call the cops if you think they won't leave, do all you have to to keep them in submission, but really? Throwing a person head first outside onto the pavement? That's too much.

I have no qualms about punching a guy who won't leave me alone at the bar (thankfully, that's no regular occurance), but I'd never actually throw someone at something.

[Hobbs]

A drunken guy got thrown on his ass? Why're you spilling tears over it? It's his own fault for trying to commit assault on the bouncer.

[DrFaroohk]

Oh I'm all for issuing a beating for someone who deserves it - say the drunk guy smashed his beer bottle and used it for a knife - now it's deadly and he's got a severe beating coming his way.

But for a drunk throwing a half-ass punch where the bouncer could easily have handled it....the owner had no reason to step into that. He just made things worse. Isn't there some old "third man in a fight" rule? At least in hockey I think it is, but I always thought it applies pretty much everywhere. Adding a third person to the fight just makes it worse, even if his intentions are good.

[Plaidman]

(Me thinks DrFaroohk is this drunk that got his butt handed to him.....)

[blas87]

I don't think so, Plaid. I think he has a good point.

There are times when people jumping in to help on something physical just make things worse.

Don't think for a minute that I excuse drunkeness or acting a fool. I don't. I'm all for putting a dumb drunk in a headlock to get him to give up and leave. But I don't like some of the tactics that I've personally witnessed. I don't think literally throwing a person head first into the pavement does anything.

And also weird, I have NEVER seen a girl literally thrown out of a bar. Maybe it's because most girls aren't strong enough to fend off a bouncer or pose a big threat, but I've never seen a girl get literally thrown out of a bar. I've seen them held down and carried out by multiple guys (holding their legs and arms down so they can't kick or punch) but then set outside and let go nicely.

[Plaidman]

Well like all things, I doubt Dr has the full story.

As far as we know, the last time this drunk was in, (A time Dr wasn't there) the drunk did pull a knife and stabbed someone. Maybe the drunk is a known fighter expert. Maybe this was a time the bouncer didn't have his license on him, the owner did, and didn't want the bouncer to lose his license if the guy called the police. Or maybe, just maybe, the owner lost his temper to the drunk. It happens. You deal with the same asshole drunk time, and time, and time fucking again, you snap. If a bouncer hurt him enough, the guy just won't show when that bouncer isnt there.

If the OWNER on the other hand beat the living crap out of the drunk by hurting him enough, the drunk is very likely never to show up period.

Sometimes it takes an extreme amount of pain to make people to stop doing bad things. If the bounchers and owners are just nice to the annoying, stupid disruptive drunk and only walk him out and send him on his way, he'll just show up time, and time, and time again to repeat it, because he isn't ever going to learn a lesson. No matter how drunk and annoying he is, he'll just be politly walked out of the door by a bunch of pansies that to the drunk point of view, are too chickenshit to do anything.

The owner did an extreme act to permentlly get rid of a problem. Good for him.

[blas87]

It'd be so much easier to just ban people in general, than to give them chance after chance to quit drinking so much and getting violent.

Take it from a person who has an entire extended family of bad alcoholics, they don't change unless they are forced to. And from hearing bouncers at bars "Just come back tomorrow, ok?" then tomorrow comes.....same damn story.

[Hobbs]

How'd he make it worse? Did the guy end up going after the bar owner or the bouncer? Were any of the non-violent patrons disturbed by what happened? I see it as an ROE defense. The moment someone uses force against you or friendly forces, you are authorized to use force to engage and neutralize the threat.

[Plaidman]

Take it from a person who has an entire extended family of bad alcoholics, they don't change unless they are forced to. And from hearing bouncers at bars "Just come back tomorrow, ok?" then tomorrow comes.....same damn story.

I'm well aware of that. Why do you think I stay away from alcoholic except in extremly rare cases?

I've seen what it does to people, both in professonal life and in my personal life. (My uncles, my father being major examples).

Even then, alot of them would much rather lose their job, their entire family, all their money, lose everything to drink more.

Even when they know they will die with another drink, they will drink. Even forcing them, won't change them.

[blas87]

Taking away their options hurts them and makes them think a bit. If they get banned from their favorite watering hole, instead of allowed to come back in 1-2-3 days, next weekend and try again (where the same thing will happen again), they may think twice about doing that.

Yes, a very severe beating taught my stalker ex that getting trashed and running your mouth (not to mention stalking) was a bad idea, but not everyone needs to be beaten senseless, and I think there's too much violence surrounding alcohol and bars already as it is.

[Kimmik]

The owner did an extreme act to permentlly get rid of a problem. Good for him.

Except the owners extreme act is illegal, and were I grew up would be assault with intent to do great bodily harm. The Bouncer had a right to defend himself when the punch was thrown at him, the owner getting involved does nothing but to add fuel to a fire.

Just because the guy is drunk does not give anyone the right to purposely try to cause grievous harm.

[Plaidman]

Except the owners extreme act is illegal, and were I grew up would be assault with intent to do great bodily harm. The Bouncer had a right to defend himself when the punch was thrown at him, the owner getting involved does nothing but to add fuel to a fire.

Just because the guy is drunk does not give anyone the right to purposely try to cause grievous harm.

If I saw someone try to punch a friend or worker of mine, I don't care how drunk they are. I've done it before, and I'll do it again, I will thrust myself in melee. Just what I am.

[kibbles]

(Me thinks DrFaroohk is this drunk that got his butt handed to him.....)

That is jumping to conclusions IMO. I don't think it was DrFaroohk at all and I agree with his point. The owner did seem to have "something to prove"

[DrFaroohk]

That is jumping to conclusions IMO. I don't think it was DrFaroohk at all and I agree with his point. The owner did seem to have "something to prove"

I love when people are like "There must be more to this story" and then proceed to make up their own lies. No. That's how this works. You work and debate upon with what information you are given. If you feel there's something in error, such as "more to the story", then feel free to do your own research and respond with the FACTS that are discovered. Not make up lies.