Unnecessary roughness

[kibbles]

I'm no innocent person myself. I've done alot of bad things that I should be in prison now for a very long time. But hey, guess what? the law stated that hey, I wasn't in right frame of mind! That the people are too afraid to press charges so I get to walk free! YAY ME!

But what if the shoe were on the other foot and someone came after you because they felt the law failed them by not punishing you. Would that be fair to you? I don't think so.

[Plaidman]

But what if the shoe were on the other foot and someone came after you because they felt the law failed them by not punishing you. Would that be fair to you? I don't think so.

It would be fair. They want me punished for my sins when I wasn't punished? I deserve it. They want someone to beat the shit out of me for what I did? I'll take it.

I'm not special. Why do you think I included the above? I want EQUALITY.

This does not mean everyone gets same punishment but me. This means that everybody deserves to be treated exactly the same.

This includes people that do harsh crimes, deserve the exact same in kind. They kill someone for fun? They deserve to lose their legs, arms, eye sight, tongue, hearing. Let them live the rest of their piece of shit life in their own mind. They no longer get to have a life ether.

They beat someone up for being a different race/religion? Let a nice big group of people of those races/religon beat the living shit out of him/her too.

This world is nothing but cruel sadistic assholes that do what they want, because despite what they say about the punishment fitting the crime? It very rarely does. More often then not, the crime's /punishment/ is laughable, and this is assuming they even get caught. It's very worth the risk of whatever /punishment/ they may recive to basically do what they want.

[Kimmik]

Glad that the law protects you. Hope to whatever gods you pray to, that a day will never come when your entire life is shattered, and your left beaten and near death, and the law just comes and laughs at whatever attempt you give to have justice as your basically told that the people that did it did just enough to not break any law.

I was going to let this pass but decided not to. Plaid I have been raped and beaten, missing most of my teeth in fact, and the fucker got off. Does it piss me off.. yes but I would be no better then him if I took the law into my own hands.

A girl I knew was beaten to death by her ex and tossed down a mine shaft, my husband had a family member that was raped, beaten, mutilated and burned to death, Neither he nor I believe in the death penalty. We do how ever believe that the prison system needs reformed, so that the prisoners have the bare necessities and access to education.

My brother that I had been looking for my whole life was shot to death trying to defend a bar owner from being robbed. I found him a few months to late.. even then I don't wish the death penalty. I am all for that dude in Az... I think his name is Joe.

I have also seen what happens when someone is accused unjustly. A friend of mine was accused of molestation.. he lost every thing and even though he was found innocent and the kid admitted he made it up because he was pissed at his mom, my friend's life was ruined because of it.

What if someone had taken matters into their own hands and beat the fuck out of my friend? As it was he was treated like shit by everyone involved cause he was the scum of the earth... Not once did they say sorry any of them... Now he fears being around children alone, he gets uncomfortable if an unknown child gets to close to him..

[blas87]

I'll be the first to admit I fully support the death penalty for muderers and rapists and child molestors.

However, I don't agree with Plaid's view on going vigilante. As much as I'd love to take a gun and blow the brains out of my cousin for molesting those kids and hang the guy who killed my cousin upside down and then do some Saw-like scene with him until he's dead, I won't do it. Those feelings are past me. I still wish death upon them both, but I won't be the one to do it, or anyone who values the rest of their life do it. It's not worth it.

[Plaidman]

I was going to let this pass but decided not to. Plaid I have been raped and beaten, missing most of my teeth in fact, and the fucker got off. Does it piss me off.. yes but I would be no better then him if I took the law into my own hands...

With the exception of the beaten, so was I. At a very young age. Not to make light of us, but many many many people girls AND boys do get raped. Nether of us are matyrs for it, nor do ether of us have special insight upon it all.

My brother that I had been looking for my whole life was shot to death trying to defend a bar owner from being robbed. I found him a few months to late.. even then I don't wish the death penalty. I am all for that dude in Az... I think his name is Joe.

Same story about my sister's father in the fact she was looking for him before he too was murdered.

I have also seen what happens when someone is accused unjustly. A friend of mine was accused of molestation.. he lost every thing and even though he was found innocent and the kid admitted he made it up because he was pissed at his mom, my friend's life was ruined because of it.

What if someone had taken matters into their own hands and beat the fuck out of my friend? As it was he was treated like shit by everyone involved cause he was the scum of the earth... Not once did they say sorry any of them... Now he fears being around children alone, he gets uncomfortable if an unknown child gets to close to him..

And again your missing two points that I've brought up.
1: My style of justice, is only against repeat offenders. Which Means it's been proven time and time and time and time again that they aren't willing to change no matter what. I'm perfectly aware that people are blamed for things they didn't do. I know people who spent years away in prison for things they didn't do. I'm talking about repeat offenders. Not one time offender, not people that didnt do anything, but people who for whatever reason cannot fucking stop thinking they are basically gods that can do whatever you want.

and 2: (Admitly this was mentioned once here, and sparely in other threads). I don't belive in murder penety. Too often have innocent people been given that. But I do belive that they should be physically and mentally damaged far worst then whatever they did, so that A: They finally put themselves into another person's shoe and realized and understand that hey, what they did hurts, and B: They very likely stop finally doing that. So now you have a far better person out of it too who is far too afraid of hurting others now that they treat others nicely.

[Hobbs]

Plaidman, that violates the Eighth Amendment so-so badly. No one, regardless of what they did, is deserving of cruel and unusual punishment. I find it ironic that you are squicky when it comes to killing someone, but have no qualms torturing someone. There's something wrong in that mentality, in my opinion.

[Plaidman]

Again with laws and protection from scum that destory lives.

OHHHHHHHH! Doesn't matter he killed all those people, it's not his fault! We must give him far more presents and rights then anyone else! We need to protect it even!


Yeah. Killing is wrong. But if you beat someone hard enough, they'll never do things like they use too again.

[Hobbs]

Again with laws and protection from scum that destory lives.

OHHHHHHHH! Doesn't matter he killed all those people, it's not his fault! We must give him far more presents and rights then anyone else! We need to protect it even!


Yeah. Killing is wrong. But if you beat someone hard enough, they'll never do things like they use too again.

"These words must apply to everyone, or they mean nothing! Do you understand that?!"

-James Tiberius Kirk, explaining the Constitution to the "Yangs" Star Trek: TOS The Omega Glory

[DrFaroohk]

Actually Plaid, I find myself quite in agreement on your views of the justice system. We disagree on this issue because I don't believe it was one of those situations where the ass kicking was warranted, but I have to say, you are right in that it could have been the way you described, even if I don't think so. But whatever.

I've always believed that everyone has one universal, unalienable right: The right to not be fucked with. This covers a broad scope of things. Right away it's the junkie who randomly smashed the windshield in my car because I didn't want to be his friend. It's the boss who was just looking for a reason to fire me so she made up some bullshit. It's the cops trying to pin a robbery on me after I helped them with the investigation, simply because they realized they fucked up and had no other alternatives.

It's the cop writing you a ticket, not because you were speeding, but because he just doesn't like you. You're married to a girl he used to date and now he's pissed. That's fucking with you.

It's having the cops harass you just because you're black and you happened to be driving through a white neighborhood. It's not getting that scholarship simply because you're native american and they'd rather give it to a Smith or a Jones than a Strikefoot or a Soccabasin.

It's people in authority flouting the very rules they put in place to screw you over. It's the law picking and choosing whoever is the most convenient to prosecute and letting the hardened criminals going about their day.

And everyone, EVERYONE has the right to not have this happen to them. And this right his higher than any constitution, bill of rights, judgement, law, court, king, or even god.

Unfortunately, I have no bill of rights stating this right. I have no army to back me up when this right is violated.

So ultimately I WILL take matters into my own hands. I'm not one for violence, unless it's in defense. I've always been more fond of giving someone an even better screwing than they gave me. That's why if you vandalize my car because you're hopped up on oxycodones, well your dealer just might get it into his head that you're a police informant. Make false accusations about me to my boss? If you ever do a stint in jail, watch out, because a lot of the guards at county are friends of mine. There just might be a rumor circulated about how you're in there for raping little boys.

In other words, DON'T FUCK WITH ME. You don't mess with me, and none of those bad things will happen. The big psycho that lives in town won't find photoshopped pictures that make it look like you were sleeping with his wife. The local chapter of the Crips won't receive a letter signed by you containing hateful racial slurs. The drug dealers won't think you're a rat. All you have to do is act like a decent human being. To paraphrase a personal hero of mine, if you screw me, I will rain down hell upon you until one of us is dead, and I am really, really good at raining down hell.

[Red Panda]

Those that break laws, get a tiny slap on the hand and spend some time in a nice vaction home where they can get whatever they want. Degrees in any field, three meals a day, full gym, movies, internet, shelter, medical. That is NOT punishment. What do victims get? Nothing, maybe a fake apology from the guy/girl. Oh! And when it's murder, you get to see them spend a couple of years getting an education and going off to do whatever job they want, while you mourn whomever you lost.

I don't think you have any idea how jail works, the importance of rehabilitation to prevent crimes, or how hard it is for a convict to get a job.

[blas87]

So? Too fucking bad.

The guy that killed my cousin? He doesn't deserve any education or to eat better than I do or get air conditioning in the summer and heat in the winter.

People who have been victims of stalkers end up having to move away, change their entire life to get away, while the psycho who ruined their life just spent a few days here and there in jail every time he/she broke the restraining order, then set free to go do it again.

If anything, more scum should be in the asylum where they can at least get someone in their head to figure out what the fuck is wrong with them and why they felt they could get away with and do such things.

[Red Panda]

What do you think rehabilitation is? You get into the person's head and figure out how to stop them from repeating their behavior, and give them the tools to do so.

Did the guy that killed your cousin do it in a robbery gone bad? Whats going to happen if he gets out of jail with no money, support system, or way to get a job. He'll go back to robbing and probably kill another person.

Did he kill them because he has angry control issues and violent tendancies? If he never learns how to control them then he is a ticking time bomb.

People definitly need to be punished, but only focusing on punishment and not on solutions might make a victim feel better but will create more victims in the long run.

[Plaidman]

Oh yeah. Reason people treat others bad is become mommy didn't hug them enough, or the fact they always got F's at school because teacher didn't like them, not the fact they never did the fucking work.

Scum that terroize do it because they love the attention and fear they get. It makes them feel important.

Make it so they do get punished and hurt badily every time they do it, they'll stop.

Because as is, someone murders someone, they get to have a nice long trial as their (Free) lawyers attempt to prove that he didn't mean to do it. Lots of pictures. Lots of coverage by various people. Then they get to go to a nice big playpen with like minded people where they basically get to do what they want while they wait to be released a year or so later where they do it again, because hey, they don't get any more attention. They are no longer the special people. So yeah, they do revert back to crime because 1: They get attention and 2: They will never get hurt doing it.


What does victims get? Bills. Lots and lots of bills, not to mention grief.

That Is NOT punishment.

[lordlundar]

"an eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind" - gandhi

Here's a thought for you Plaidman. You get wronged, so you retaliate. Someone sees you retaliate and thinks you go too far and they respond to punish you, and so on and so forth. Where does it end?

And if you think it's hypothetical, World War 1 was this situation in a nutshell. The US involvement in WW2 is another example. Pick a gang war in the past 20-30 years or more, I promise you that with only a few exceptions, it's vigilante justice gone out of control. Do I need to continue?

As for this situation, the Bartender's motivation is irrelevant. He's not there to toss drunk out, especially not in a manner that causes serious or critical bodily harm. It is the bouncer's and/or security's job to toss out the drunks. They are paid to do it, and they are trained to handle it. There is no legitimate reason for the bartender to go off on the drunk without any provocation when there is someone trained to escort them out with minimal injury.

[Red Panda]

Oh yeah. Reason people treat others bad is become mommy didn't hug them enough, or the fact they always got F's at school because teacher didn't like them, not the fact they never did the fucking work.

Scum that terroize do it because they love the attention and fear they get. It makes them feel important.

Make it so they do get punished and hurt badily every time they do it, they'll stop.

Because as is, someone murders someone, they get to have a nice long trial as their (Free) lawyers attempt to prove that he didn't mean to do it. Lots of pictures. Lots of coverage by various people. Then they get to go to a nice big playpen with like minded people where they basically get to do what they want while they wait to be released a year or so later where they do it again, because hey, they don't get any more attention. They are no longer the special people. So yeah, they do revert back to crime because 1: They get attention and 2: They will never get hurt doing it.


What does victims get? Bills. Lots and lots of bills, not to mention grief.

That Is NOT punishment.

Once again you show you don't know anything about prison or criminals. If you ever get jury duty please let them know your archaic and bizarre views on justice so you won't end up being picked.