praise for the stimulus

[smileyeagle1021]

I absolutely hate people who praise the stimulus disaster. Despise with a passion of a thousand suns.
We still have double digit unemployment, long term unemployment is now the norm rather than the exception... and God help you trying to find a job if you don't have a car because when 10 people apply for the same job you know the one who can get there with minimal notice is getting the job. I honestly don't know how I'm not going to file bankruptcy this year because my fiance simply cannot find a job, every one he has interviewed at has turned him down because he doesn't have "reliable" transportation (though in fairness, it would seem that they are familiar with UTA and the sad state of transit in this country because we're spending all of our money blowing sunshine up the detroit automakers' asses).
So please, before anyone starts the bullshit in how great the stimulus was, tell me why the fuck someone with 5 years of culinary experience can't even get a job at McDonalds. For that matter, why the hell someone with two years call center experience is stuck at 28 hours a week and being damned grateful for that. Or perhaps explain why in this great stimulus, those of us on the brink of bankruptcy can't get food stamps because we aren't in enough need, you know that means that there are a hell of a lot people worse off than me.

Thanks for fucking nothing being accomplished other than raising my taxes even more. Oh wait, I take that back, something is getting accomplished, four new rail lines will be built... oh wait, those rail lines were already under construction before the stimulus, now though it is coming out of my income tax rather than sales tax to pay for it... ooh aah... Praise Obama.
Give me a break.

[BigGiant]

Hey, don't be down on new rail.

I work in the rail industry. One thing that's going on right now is lobbying for new rail all across the midwest as a "green" incentive....

I agree, though. Things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

Ignore wall st. and the crap they spew on the news. Follow the real indicators. Rail traffic is still down, and until it comes up, you can forget coming out of this.

[smileyeagle1021]

Hey, I'm a fan of expanding rail... unfortunately a meaningful stimulus would have been to build new rail that wasn't already planned... no they just shifted funding for rail that was already being built... that doesn't put any new jobs in the economy, just changes how we pay for it.

[draggar]

Hey, I'm a fan of expanding rail... unfortunately a meaningful stimulus would have been to build new rail that wasn't already planned... no they just shifted funding for rail that was already being built... that doesn't put any new jobs in the economy, just changes how we pay for it.

All the construction money here in south Florida didn't add many jobs, it just gave more OT to those who were already there.

But, I do have to admit, after almost a year of a battle and a highly aggressive attitude from them, my mortgage company (who took a $25,000,000,000 bailout) finally agreed to lower our mortgage payments.

My wife is also able to get more unemployment benefits since she still can't find a job that she can do FT.

[AdminAssistant]

And the new student loan rules are going to help so many people get out of a lot of debt. There's the income-based repayment plan, and then there's the rule that if you make 120 payments (10 years) and you work in certain fields, the government will forgive the rest of that debt. (Those fields include all types of teaching - every subject, every level.)

Also, I'm not sure where you're getting "double-digit unemployment" unless you're referring specifically to Utah. Last I heard, the national figure was 9.5%. In Arkansas, it's 7.5%. I'm not sure what the numbers are for Kansas. Frankly, I'd like to see a little more of that stimulus money going to higher education. Universities can't hire new faculty to replace those who've retired...or have left for better paying jobs in the private sector. Tuition just keeps getting higher and higher and higher, and states are slashing income-based scholarships. Every year we get an e-mail from the Chancellor warning that we might be furloughed. (Excuse me, EFF that, I don't work for free. Furlough Bill Self and pay the rest of the University with his salary. If he whines, remind him how we got our ass kicked by Nowhere University in the NCAA.)

[Stormraven]

Out here in CA, the figures are close to 12%, I believe. I don't have any trouble believing it, because I've been unemployed for 2 years. Haven't found call center work, haven't found customer service work (despite 5 years experience) can't even find retail work.

[protege]

Thanks for fucking nothing being accomplished other than raising my taxes even more.

That's *exactly* what's happened, Smiley. Take the billions thrown at an attempt to put GM back together. Anyone hear what GM did with some of that cash? They used it to buy up a *financing* company. Why? Because they'd unloaded their GMAC subsidiary awhile back. Uh, tell me again why taxpayer funds were allowed to be used for that? Pardon my French, but how the fuck is that even legal?

Also annoying, was the news last week about the possible GM IPO to taxpayers. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't like that idea either. The stimulus (TARP) cash that was given to GM should be repaid before they do anything like a stock offering. Why should taxpayers, if they so choose, to pay for the privilege of obtaining GM stock...which might become worthless again in the future?

Also, at least locally, quite a few smaller firms have initiated a hiring freeze because their taxes have gone up to bail out the big firms. I don't know about other countries, but in the US...most of the jobs are created by smaller companies. If their taxes (and other costs) go up to the point that they cannot create new jobs, they simply won't do so.

As for the unemployment figure, I too have heard that we're occasionally hovering around 10% at times. I'm sure that figure might be lower than what it really is--certain parties want to paint the stimulus to be as big a success as possible

[guywithashovel]

Also, I'm not sure where you're getting "double-digit unemployment" unless you're referring specifically to Utah. Last I heard, the national figure was 9.5%. In Arkansas, it's 7.5%. I'm not sure what the numbers are for Kansas. )

I've heard that if you include people who are underemployed in the unemployment rate, it would be somewhere around 16%. By underemployed, I mean the people who want to work full time but are working part time or just not working as much as they'd like. Also, there are several states that still have unemployment rates at or above 10%. The rate for Ohio is somewhere around 10%.

It seems that all of these people griping about the stimulus and how it has "failed" rarely have any solutions of their own. So, if you think it was such a disaster, then what do you think should have been done to stabilize the economy and facilitate growth?

[crashhelmet]

bashing the stimulus is like bashing welfare. It's not the system that's broke. It's the abusers that took advantage of it. Banks and other lenders using the stimulus money to pay out bonuses to their executives instead of payroll to their employees. Hate the thieves, not the givers.

Unemployment in a lot of places is going to remain high for a long time. No call center work in California? That's because they've been being moved out of California for the last 10 years. if they're not outsourced to India or Canada, they're here in Nevada, or in Arizona, Texas, New York, and Florida.

The largest chunk of unemployed people here in Vegas are either union construction workers, who are accustomed to being unemployed for part of the year, or casino dealers and servers that are too proud to goto work for any less money.

CH

[AdminAssistant]

Unemployment in a lot of places is going to remain high for a long time. No call center work in California? That's because they've been being moved out of California for the last 10 years. if they're not outsourced to India or Canada, they're here in Nevada, or in Arizona, Texas, New York, and Florida.

The largest chunk of unemployed people here in Vegas are either union construction workers, who are accustomed to being unemployed for part of the year, or casino dealers and servers that are too proud to goto work for any less money.

And that is why Arkansas' unemployment is only 7.5%. First off, it's a right-to-work state, and a number of automakers (like Toyota) have plants/factories there making parts and cars. Hey, Detroit's loss is the South's gain. Unions killed them liked they killed the steel mills of the Rust Belt. *shrug* However, there's a major steel mill in Arkansas. There are, of course, Wal-Mart and Tyson (although all of that work is concentrated in the Northwest part of the state). Most importantly, you've got a lot of people who aren't afraid to work really hard for not a lot of money or don't have the education to have other options. Is cleaning chickens for minimum wage a great way to earn a living? Probably not. But it's a paycheck.

[HYHYBT]

I don't know whether this counts as unforgivable "praise" in your book or not, but while I don't think the stimulus program was well-thought-out, I do believe we'd be even worse off without it.

The stimulus (TARP) cash that was given to GM should be repaid before they do anything like a stock offering.

I don't quite follow your logic. Stock offerings don't cost the company anything. They RAISE money.... which can then be used for things like paying back TARP. Why is that a bad thing?

[protege]

They seem like they're trying to get more money from the taxpayers with the IPO. From what I understand, the offer would only be extended to people who paid income taxes last year. If you got a refund or didn't owe anything...no dice. With that said, it seems that GM is an endless money pit.

[HYHYBT]

That's certainly an odd condition.... but then, how many people who didn't even make enough last year to have to pay income tax have the money to buy stock anyway?

[smileyeagle1021]

I don't know whether this counts as unforgivable "praise" in your book or not, but while I don't think the stimulus program was well-thought-out, I do believe we'd be even worse off without it.

I won't argue that it would probably be worse, the people that bother me are the ones who will go on and on about all the good that has come from it and won't acknowledge the fact that overall it has been an abysmal failure.

As far as not having any other ideas.
Here's one idea. Take all the money wasted on bailing out companies that will likely never recover anyway, pump it into NEW road and rail projects, new renewable energy projects, new telecommunication projects, and projects to modernize schools. While it may not have done much for unemployment (outside of the construction industry), the jobs it would produce would be long term (long term jobs to maintain wind farms, long term jobs operating the new rail lines, long term jobs maintaining the telecommunications systems). The great part (with the exception of transit lines, which are still statistically less subsidized than the interstate system if I remember correctly) a lot of those could be self sustaining without government money. Also the new (refurbished) roads and rails will allow people and goods to move more efficiently, lowering business costs allowing the to expand into the future. Same thing with better telecommunication, better service and potentially lower cost will allow business expansion. Renewable energy can be sold into the grid, and every kilowatt pumped into the grid can be used, once again, to keep businesses going (just look at all the pain caused to California businesses by their energy crisis).
It wouldn't be a quick fix, it wouldn't be a glamorous fix, but it would have long term results.