Non competative competative sports

[Red Panda]

The opposite of the topic about parents taking sports too seriously, I hate it when parents and leagues take the competitiveness out of sports.

What I mean, when the league has a rule where every game ends in a tie, no matter what. First off, I find this condensending to kids. I know kids aren't adults but I also know they aren't stupid. They catch one when one team score 20 times and the other doesn't score at all but the game is a tie that something is up. Its nice for the losers but it takes away the accomplishments of the winners.

Secondly kids need to learn how to lose. Nobody wants to lose but if a kid never learns how to cope with it then when they eventually lose something more important then a soccer game they will flip out because it has never happened before.

I had a season in little league where my team loss every game. Even the one time we scored more points we technically lost because we only had eight players. It wasn't for a lack of trying, but that season the team had alot of poorer kids on the team who couldn't make it to practices or games since parents weren't around to give them rides or make sure they showed up. Despite that it was a fun year. If the league had declared we had won some games or tied when we hadn't it would have been insulting. They would be saying "We know you lost, but we don't think you're smart enough to know that."

Basically, kids aren't dumb. Its good to not put too much pressure on them but at the same time you shouldn't pretend they can't handle losing.

[KnitShoni]

I think a lot of the reason for this is because of parents taking sports too seriously. I think, if parents knew how to behave at their children's sporting events, and made the effort to teach them that losing is not the end of the world, instead of making their children worry that mom and dad will love them less if they lose, there would have been little reason to remove the competition aspect from kids' sports.

[Greenday]

At the youngest levels, eh, I can almost understand it. It allows kids to focus on the fundamentals of the game instead of the score so they can keep learning.

But it mostly stems from the whole "Aw, if they lose/fail it'll hurt their feelings!" Cry me a river. Failure happens. Losing happens. Kids need to learn about it in a non-major damaging way than finding out when it's something important.

[aurelemsrealm]

Disappointments are a part of life. That's just the way it is. My parents taught me that lesson, and I'll teach my kids that lesson. The important thing is that we learn from our mistakes.

[Racket_Man]

ahhhh yes just the time for a George Carlin clip from his last HBO concert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rIPe5akN48

relevant rant starts around the 3:40 mark

everyones a WINNER or you were the LAST winner. NO JERK YOU ARE A LOOSER.

Gods I MISS George so much

[Lace Neil Singer]

It's ridiculous. Back when I used to horseride regularly and went to gymkhanas, I used to notice loads of spoiled brat behaviour when kids lost. It was usually the kids who owned their own horses; they used to think they were better than us riding school kids who had to ride the school horses. One girl even threw a massive shrieking tantrum cuz she lost a race. Another girl, who came last in the Chase Me Charlie (an event where everyone jumps a fence which gets higher and higher) complained that it "wasn't fair" that only the top four got rosettes. Well, excuse me, but that's life. Everyone is not a winner in real life, and the sooner you learn that, the better.

[JustintheConfessor]

Bottom line, kids need to learn that losing and disappointments are part of life. Parents taking the game too seriously is no reason to make every game a tie. If parents are being disruptive, they should be removed from the area. Adjusting the rules is catering to them.

[Amanita]

Not too long ago, I was posting on the message board for a local upcoming sci-fi convention. We were discussing costume contests, and I suggested using categories as a way to award prizes. After all, some types of costuming are so different that comparing them is like comparing apples to oranges. As near as I can tell, it's a format used by several major cons, including Celebration, the queen mother of all Star Wars cons.

Well, somebody suggested doing away with competitive judging altogether, saying that everyone should be given awards, regardless of whether they spent 10 months on a costume, or 10 minutes. After all, we're all winners, right?

I was like "No..Just No." I'm sorry, but for everyone who really put a lot of effort into their costumes, it's insulting to be handed the exact same prize as somebody who threw theirs together with stuff from their closet in less than ten minutes. Honorable mentions for things that catch the judge's eye, fine. Like if somebody's costume makes the judges laugh, or is irresistably cute, even if it's not as good as the top prize winners.
But just handing everyone the same prize regardless of how much work went into the costumes? Hell no!
I don't know about you guys, but considering the amount of work going into my con outfit-(Shaak Ti of Star Wars, the leather apron alone has about 50 hours of work), I would be pretty pissed if for all that, I got the same dinky prize as somebody who bought a halloween costume-in-a-bag and entered that.

Just giving the same prize to everyone regardless is just plain insulting to those who really did work hard, whether that work be costuming, athletic skill, or what-have-you.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Exactly. In the gymkhanas, the tiny tots in the leading rein classes all got given specials for competing, but once you're past that stage, you were expected to be a gracious winner and a good loser.

[jedimaster91]

As near as I can tell, it's a format used by several major cons, including Celebration, the queen mother of all Star Wars cons.

I went to Celebration, and the costuming was freaking amazing. I chatted with one guy who had a Mandalorian costume made from Legos and he said the jet pack alone took him 6 months to put together. There were others I saw I didn't even want to know how long it took or how much it cost.

I don't know about you guys, but considering the amount of work going into my con outfit-(Shaak Ti of Star Wars, the leather apron alone has about 50 hours of work), I would be pretty pissed if for all that, I got the same dinky prize as somebody who bought a halloween costume-in-a-bag and entered that.

Shaak Ti's not an easy costume to pull off. Most impressive.

[Amanita]

I confess, I'll be cheating with the horned and tailed headdress, making it of stuffed fabric instead of prosthetic latex. The movie-worn skirt had a gazillion little pleats, but if I can't do that, I have a skirt that looks right in fullness and colour- (rusty reddish brown and a full circle when spread out)
Here's some pics:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3121754...7617113502738/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3121754...7617113502738/
The flash from the camera makes the whole piece look a little more orange than it actually is
And here's part of the costume- I am working on making a shirt and cloak which are more accurate than what I threw on for the mockup here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3121754...7617113502738/
I also need contact lenses, can't do that makeup job with glasses in the way!

Back on topic, I've heard of a kid's hockey league- Timbits hockey, sponsered by Tim Horton's. They stress fun and learning the game without the pressure of competition. I also remember my gym teacher's approach to team sports. After we had done a few classes learning the game, he split the gym into two halves, one for competitive play, the other for fun.
I don't have a problem with those things at all. The problem is when people try to take the competition out of every thing out there.

[Plaidman]

I'm likely in the minority in this.

Do I belive in competative sports? Sure.

I also understand why they want kids to be playing for fun instead of competative.

I get that people want to stress that your not always going to win.

But it goes to the part where the kids never win. Period. At anything. No matter what they do, no matter how hard they try, they are just not good at anything. Does havoc to their self-esteem.

I guess it's a great lesson to teach them at a young age, that they suck and that they will always lose at everything they ever try no matter how hard they do, while others can do it totally effortlesssly, and some of those even show off by screaming that they weren't even trying. That just feels great. To be told that you were trying your absoute best against someone, that wasn't even doing a quarter of their skill, and they uttery crushed you.

[KitterCat]

Amanita, from one seamstress to another. Dame, you’ve got skill. 50 hours on just an apron. You’ve got skill in both leather and cloth.

Back to topic- Competitive wise I can remember in elementary school that the English teachers put the class into 3 reading groups and told us (I was 6/7) that each group was equal. We figured out in 2 days that there were different reading levels. Kids will figure out when their being feed a load of bull. They may not call you out on it but I’d be willing to bet that any sport competition the kids are keeping score wither or not the adults are.

Pladman, I was that kid that sucked at sports. Cant tell you how many times I got hit in the head with a ball while trying to block, duck or stop a ball, baton, or even a racket. To save my life I could not climb that rope. I just learned I wasn’t good at sports. There are other things I am good at. I don’t need sports to give me self-esteem after all.

[AdminAssistant]

I think there has to be a healthy balance. Some competition is okay, but there has to be fun. And a kid who doesn't win shouldn't be made to feel like a loser at life. Again, it's why I push for more arts instead of sports. You can still have some degree of 'competition' but it's based on expression and skill, not brute strength or athleticism. Theatre (due to it's collaborative nature) is a great way to teach teamwork. Unfortunately, even the arts get too competitive - dance is particularly bad.

I sucked at sports. I discovered in college (too late) that I was a decent dancer. That would've been better for me, but those resources weren't available.

I don't really have much issue with splitting kids up by reading skill. I could read 2-3 grade levels above my grade, which made most classes really, really boring. I should've had different assignments than the others that would challenge me. Nothing wrong with that.

[Lace Neil Singer]

At first, I sucked at sports. However, I tried hard and soon found sports I was good at, like hockey, playing in goal at netball and being batstop at rounders. I was bad at all gym, and at track style sports. So I became adept at getting out of Sports Day by volunteering to hold the tape and help out. XD

I still don't think that letting kids who suck at sports believe that everyone's a winner is going to do them the slightest bit of good. All it does is make it even harder for them when they leave school and learn that in the real world, everyone does NOT win. The fall will be so much harder, and will affect them worse if they have not learned to lose gracefully.

I'm sure it's difficult for people who aren't good at sports and who come in last in Sports Day, but pandering to them and babying them by giving everyone a prize is not the answer. Plus, what about the self esteem of the sporty kids? Having their efforts belittled by seeing Miss Slowcoach and Master Can'thittheball getting the exact same prize as they do for busting their guts out isn't going to help them any and is just going to make them feel as tho there's no point in trying.