Non-profit collection tactics

[Dreamstalker]

Spring is in the air here, and with the flowers and birds come organizations beating the streets for donations.

Some of the legitimate ones (the panhandling scammers are for another thread) can be spotted fairly easily from a few blocks away if you know who/what to look for. Most that are seen around my neck of the woods (Oxfam, Greenpeace, and a certain whackjob politico named LaRouche come to mind) will stop at almost nothing to get in your face. I came very close to getting hit by a car one day and actually missed my train countless times trying to dodge the culprits. A "no" or outright ignoring them should be enough of a clue that one is Not Interested. None of them have tried to grab me yet, but getting in my face might as well be that in terms of how much it pisses me off.

Another thing that bugs me is the donation sheets that have credit card info on them. Sorry, but having had my CC # nicked once I'm not giving that info to someone on the street. Zero security involved. I'm a bit puzzled how cash donations aren't accepted...not everyone wants to or even can give every month (and don't get me started on the rationalizations "it's only a cup of coffee a day"...maybe I can't/don't buy coffee every day--when I do I use stored-value coffee cards). Yes, I understand how some unscrupulous persons could pocket the cash...solution to that could be a locked receptacle like the Salvation Army kettles, or a postage-prepaid donation envelope that one just sends in.

Now don't get me wrong, I like what some of these organizations do, I (as likely others) either don't have the money or just don't want to/can't donate on a regular basis. Nor do I like the borderline-harassment tactics some of them use to get money.

(An Oxfam tale: quite a few years ago, I was racing for a bus to get home in the rain. I'm accosted, given the spiel, when I cotton to the fact that they won't accept cash I say I don't have a CC...which in part was true at the time; I had one in my name but it was linked to my mom's CC account and I was only to use it for clothes or emergencies. I get harassed further "what do you mean you don't have a credit card? Everyone does"...not me sparky, I'm a poor student. I need to catch that bus NOW. "Come on, you must have a debit card, that's like a credit card"--HELL NO I'm not giving that to someone on the street. Somehow I managed to escape without drawing blood--I might have gone into attack-dog-ready mode and scared him--and got my bus).

[TheRoo]

I would agree that these people are very annoying. The problem is, they break you down (you in a general sense, not specifically anyone). When I was 18, I went to the University of Minnesota, and these kinds of people were all over. I had the same problem. They just won't leave you alone.

I went back to school when I was 30, and much wiser. The technique that I used worked really well. It was really hard at first, but after a while, you get used to it. Just completely avoid eye contact. If you can manage for an uncomfortable few seconds, they give up. I kind of felt like a jerk at first, but that didn't last long.

[DexX]

Yup, just act like they aren't there if you can get away with it, and keep walking in a straight line. This is easy if you have a mobile phone - just pretend to be on a call (or even better, make a genuine call). Walk quickly and check your watch too.

The problem is that, while they are collecting for worthwhile causes, these people are paid for the work they do, and they are paid on a commission basis. The pushier they are, the more likely they are to get paid. Therefore, some of them are total wankers, just like the same types doing sales for commercial ventures. God, the American Express people in airports and railway stations are the worst. I want to punch those fuckers.

One exchange that made me laugh...

"Could I interest you in-"
[Hurrying past] "I have a credit card already thanks."
"But we-"
[Walking away] "I'm not interested, thank you."
"You're not interested in saving money?"
[Shouting over my shoulder] "No, I'm not interested in talking to YOU."

[Seshat]

My usual line is "I don't deal with rude people." Only if they're rude, of course.

I have a friend who has a great line. "We take charity, we don't give it." Of course, it does help that she's visibly disabled. It's also not true - as in, she does give charity. Just of her time, not money. Money-wise, she accepts charity. (She has to. Not only is she disabled, so are both her kids. She was at the back of the line when God was handing out luck.)

[Dreamstalker]

I try to ignore them (headphones in the ears even not connected to anything works); sometimes they ensconce themselves in the worst possible areas (subway entrance that's very narrow, or right beyond the fare gates exiting the platform). Oy.

(why don't they go after people who look like they have disposable income?)

[Saydrah]

A few points from someone who lasted a whoppin' three months doing fundraising door to door (and who would like to remind you that a certain Mr. Obama was a community organizer and lasted far longer, and that if you can handle that kind of stress, you can totally handle the presidency):

1. Absolute shite fundraisers if they do not go away when you say, "Thank you, but I'm not interested." I was always taught that you can keep the conversation going if they are objecting on the basis of other things, but if someone is just not interested- we're not HERE to talk to people who aren't interested in helping out a good organization. We're here to talk to people who are.

2. Probably the reason they don't take cash is because turnover is so high in fundraising- precisely because of the stress, the high rate of rejection, and the downright asshattery of the general public. They can't always trust a fundraiser not to disappear with the cash before the end of the day. When I worked for a small non-profit doing community organizing (much of which was fundraising in my case- not so much in Obama's case) we took cash, because we were all friends at the office and went out for drinks after work- but larger organizations don't tend to because their employees have a tendency to disappear.

3. Re: Disposable Income- it's the people who have it who won't give any to you. How do you think they got it? I always had better lunch getting donations in lower middle class neighborhoods than neighborhoods full of very rich people. I still remember a donor who had a sign on his door saying he was delinquent on rent- knocked anyway, he was thrilled to see me, said he loved the organization, and handed over $20 without me even giving a pitch. On the contrary, people with 3 Benzes in the driveway usually had the maid come answer the door and pretend nobody who spoke English was home. They got really annoyed when I just spoke Spanish right back to the maid! I don't speak much, but enough to give a fundraising pitch.

4. Excuses do not work. Fundraisers are given training to get around excuses. That's why they have a retort to every brushoff like "I can't afford it right now" or "I don't have a credit card." Some people are better at retorting politely than others. However, making excuses is often an indication that if it's EASY not to donate they won't, but if it becomes easier just to write a check, they will. If I had a dollar for every donation I got from someone who first made excuses, well, I could treat myself to a real nice dinner. So don't make excuses. Just say, politely, "I'm not interested." Don't explain yourself, because the explanations are what fundraisers are trained to deflect, and believe you me, they have heard EVERY SINGLE ONE. Just not interested. Polite, but not interested.

5. Remember, fundraisers are people too. It's no more okay to treat someone at your door badly than to treat a cashier or fast food employee badly. Just because they work on commission doesn't make them less than human. Just because they choose to raise funds for a cause instead of working 9 to 5 or running a cash register doesn't make them less than human. That doesn't mean you have to hand over $5 or $10 to everyone who approaches you, but it does mean basic human courtesy applies. Even if someone is rude to you, I see no reason to sink to their level and be nasty.

I used to be a bit rude to people approaching me for money, too, but after doing it myself and seeing how stunningly rude people can be, I am now VERY polite. I generally offer a snack and a drink, and if the cause is a worthy one, a SMALL contribution. I have my own causes that I give large (well, large for me) donations to several times each year, but I see no harm in occasionally foregoing a fast food lunch in favor of giving $5 to a canvasser.

[Boozy]

5. Remember, fundraisers are people too. It's no more okay to treat someone at your door badly than to treat a cashier or fast food employee badly.

I don't think its okay to verbally abuse door-to-door salepeople, but there is absolutely a difference between them and your local cashier.

I came to the cashier of my own free will. I walked into their store. I want to do business with them.

But if you knock on my door, and I'm having a bad day, and I don't want you there...all bets are off. You are on my property. I didn't invite you. I didn't ask for this transaction in any way.

I'm usually nice to door-to-door salespeople. But I don't feel like someone who instead chooses to open their doors and say, "Get the fuck off my property" is as bad as someone who swears at a cashier. If someone wants to be a son-of-a-bitch on their own doorstep, that's cool with me.

[Saydrah]

It's not cool with me at all if someone wants to be a son of a bitch on their own doorstep, because they're still being rude to someone who's just doing their job. It is legal to use canvassing as a method of sales, fundraising, and promotion; it's no more invasive than telemarketing, and there are many members here and on CS who have been telemarketers and encountered extreme rudeness with the same logic- "They called me at home, I can negate all boundaries of manners and human decency."

[powerboy]

I don't think its okay to verbally abuse door-to-door salepeople, but there is absolutely a difference between them and your local cashier.

I came to the cashier of my own free will. I walked into their store. I want to do business with them.

But if you knock on my door, and I'm having a bad day, and I don't want you there...all bets are off. You are on my property. I didn't invite you. I didn't ask for this transaction in any way.

I'm usually nice to door-to-door salespeople. But I don't feel like someone who instead chooses to open their doors and say, "Get the fuck off my property" is as bad as someone who swears at a cashier. If someone wants to be a son-of-a-bitch on their own doorstep, that's cool with me.

Couldn't have said it better myself

[Seshat]

It is legal to use canvassing as a method of sales, fundraising, and promotion; it's no more invasive than telemarketing

I also detest telemarketing. My disabilities make it a non-trivial thing for me to get to the phone or the door before the average able-bodied person's patience runs out. If I then find out I've done it because the other person (or their employer) is interested in invading my home and taking some of my valuable time-and-energy for the purpose of trying to get money (or a religious conversion) from me - well, I get angry.

Thus, my home has a 'no soliciting' sign on the door. And my phone has voicemail. But I resent having to have those things for other peoples' convenience - because some people think the default case is 'intrusion is okay'.

I think the default should be 'intrusion is not okay'.

[Dreamstalker]

I think the default should be 'intrusion is not okay'.

Amen. Computer intrusion is Not Okay, physical property intrusion in the form of B&E is Not Okay. get too far into my personal space (another form of intrusion) and I tend to get pissed.

It's hard (for me, anyway) to not go off on someone when they're actively preventing you from moving/getting useful stuff done. Most of the canvassers I now see around here tend to be OK (if a bit miffed) with the polite brushoff, but a few don't take the hint, especially the ones that block an entire stairwell/corner/etc...yes those areas are high traffic and thus better 'pickings', but if someone ignores you don't get obnoxious.

[Saydrah]

Canvassing is legal, as is telemarketing. Those who feel it should not be so should actively campaign for a ban on door to door marketing and canvassing in their neighborhood. Similar bans have been passed in some jurisdictions, though most do have exceptions for political candidates and registered non-profit organizations. In my state, we have one city that passed a door to door sales ban that prohibits any for-profit entity from sending an employee to the home of any person who has not asked for their services and who does not have an established relationship with the company.

Disagreement with the nature of someone's occupation does not make impolite treatment of a person who does their job politely excusable. If they are rude- and I don't count simply legally coming to your door or approaching you as rude- then all bets are off, fire back if you must, though I prefer not to sink to someone else's level; however, the logic that it's okay to be nasty to anyone doing telemarketing or selling door to door because you disagree with their job is the same logic SCs use to excuse rudeness to fast food employees and others who they feel are beneath them. A person earning a living in a way unacceptable to you is still a person.

However, I'm pot, nice to meet you, kettle, because I can be a right rude sort to anyone whose occupation involves the mistreatment of animals. I think that's a bit of a different case, but my Jewish guilt forces me to add this disclaimer

[Boozy]

Disagreement with the nature of someone's occupation does not make impolite treatment of a person who does their job politely excusable.

The nature of the job itself is impolite. Its impossible to politely impose yourself into someone's day, completely uninvited, and ask them to give you money. You can't. The very act is rude.

Personally, I do not swear at solicitors. I say nothing, and hang up the phone or just close the door. I do not accept that they have any right to my time.

[MystyGlyttyr]

I admit, I can be downright hostile to some street charity people. But around here, it's always the same people. It's those damn Boy/Girl Scouts, or it's that psychotic cult.

There is a particular cult leeching around in my area that gets my hackles up something fierce because they're a pack of bastards who think that if you don't believe their crazed rhetoric, then you're fit to be verbally and possibly physically flayed alive. The only way to deal with them is a pre-emptive swift and violent brush-off...not necessarily physically, but being threatening enough to make them aware you AREN'T afraid to get physical if they push it.

So far as the Scouts, I have no problems with the kids. The kids can be cute when left to their own devices. If some little six-year-old comes bobbling over and asks me if I want a cookie because she hasn't got her front teeth and can't have them (actual sales pitch from one that came to the office, holy God, that was funny), even I'll think that's freaking adorable and am more likely to buy a box of cookies. It's their PARENTS, who get personally offended that you actually might not want to buy a box of overpriced sugar from their offspring. If you offer a simple "No thanks" to the kid, the parents come stomping over in a screaming fit that you "don't care" about the kids and this and that and buy the fucking cookies blah blah blah. Right in front of the pwecious widdums. So now whenever I see scouts of any kind, I do my meth-freak bug-eyed walk and just scare them before they can approach me.

(A note, walking around looking and acting like a drug addict gets a LOT of people to avoid you. )

[Seshat]

Canvassing is legal, as is telemarketing. Those who feel it should not be so should actively campaign for a ban on door to door marketing and canvassing in their neighborhood.

If I had the energy to do that and look after my own health and take up causes I deem more urgent (appropriate housing for certain types of disabled people comes to mind), I would.

Disagreement with the nature of someone's occupation does not make impolite treatment of a person who does their job politely excusable.

And that's why the sign on my door and the voicemail on my phone. If they choose to ignore the sign and ring my doorbell anyway, I point to the sign. If they've actually read the sign and still feel entitled to encroach on my private property, they deserve whatever they get.

My husband's tactic for telemarketers: he's read up on the information they are legally required to be able to give, on request. As soon as he identifies them as a telemarketer, he starts asking for it. 90% of them can't - which means they're not actually obeying the law.