People who can't take NO for an answer

[Mytical]

Ok this may be an epic fratch, and one that might be in the wrong area..if so..please move it. If this is too much for even Fratching, feel free to delete it.

Recently a few people have been sharing tales of times that either somebody didn't take no for an answer, or otherwise assulted/violated them. It makes me both mad and sad that things like this happen. I don't care if you are male or female..or what sex the other person is...NO MEANS NO. Period.

I will admit, it makes me a little bit more angry when I hear about guys being jerkwads..but that is because I am male..and I hate that these...things (i refuse to call them men or even human) are associated with my gender. Heck, I can't even tell you what I would prefer to happen to these...things..because that would be too much for even Fratching.

Nobody and I mean NOBODY should have to go through an assault. No is not a 'maybe', no is not a 'not right now'. IT IS A NO. PERIOD. You stop, right then, not in ten minutes, not in five minutes, not even in 10 seconds. RIGHT THEN.

I am a peace loving, gentle person, but this is one thing that really makes my blood boil. Yes I know I am rambling, probably sound like a mad man..but this is just beyond wrong. I can't tell you how many 'excuses' I've heard.

She (He) didn't really mean no. Did they say no? THEN THEY MEANT NO.
She (He) was asking for it. NO, NO THEY WERE NOT. I don't care if they are running around naked, NO MEANS NO.
If I got into those that did things like this to children...I would be banned for life from Fratching. Especially if I got into what they deserved to happen to them...grrrr.

Sorry I know I ramble (a lot), and sometimes it is hard to follow this rambling..

I've been slapped for stopping a guy from hitting a female (by the female I stopped the guy from hitting)...

If you are with somebody, you treat them with dignity respect, and you try your best to make them happy. If you are not, you leave them be..period. Male, female, I don't care. If you force yourself onto somebody, you are no longer a human being in my book.

Yes, I know there are those who have cried rape and weren't. I've been on the wrong side of that. I was very lucky that they recanted finally, because it was just their word against mine. However, all claims should be taken very seriously..and investigated fully. I don't care if they are proud members of the 'oldest profession' or nuns. Has nothing to do with their ability to say NO.

No it doesn't matter if they change their minds 'in the middle of it' and say no then. No it doesn't matter if you know how to 'turn them on'. The minute, no the second they say no..you stop. There is absolutely NO legitimate excuse. None, zero, zilch. This could be a very very long post, so I will stop now..hopefully having made some sense.

However, I just want to stress the main point. IF YOU RAPE, SEXUALLY ASSAULT OR HARASS somebody you are WRONG.

[Sarah Valentine]

And some people wonder why I carry around a knife. 2 of my family members were attacked, a friend of a friend was attacked, and I myself was in a really scary situation. You are absolutely right no means no, get away from me now or else. And don't get me started on the people joke about it and laugh it off like it's nothing.

[kibbles]

I totally agree with everything you said, but to add on a bit more. I believe that another group of people who should be listed in the category of "things" are those that falsely cry assault/rape. I believe they are just as much vile scum as the other things.

But ITA!!

[Mytical]

@ Sarah *nods* I agree, nobody should ever joke about it. I hate the term 'rape' when people use it in games and such (As in I just 'raped' you etc). Just want to reach out and smack them.

@Kibbles As I said, I have been on the wrong side of a false claim (I am still a virgin at 36). Of course the same person accused 85% of the male population of the block we lived on. They recanted, but I was dragged through the mud, life turned upside down and everything I had ever did went over with a fine tooth comb. Not fun.

[Sage Blackthorn]

I've been slapped for stopping a guy from hitting a female (by the female I stopped the guy from hitting)...

First off.....MYT'! Gods you have no idea how great it is to see a familiar screen name at last!

Secondly, I think if someone slapped/hit me after I've just stopped someone else from punching them. I'd have to interpret that as meaning they were enjoying getting the crap beat out of them and didn't want any interference. "Sorry, I misunderstood your cries of "OH MY GOD! DON'T KILL ME!!!" to mean you required assistance. My mistake entirely, do continue but just so you know what they were doing to you IS illegal, especially when yer doing it on my front lawn, and I've already called the police. They should be here momentarily. Oh no, don't leave on my account.....no, really, I'm placing you both under citizens arrest for assault. You for assaulting her and her for assualting me."

[Mytical]

I don't post here often, because not much gets me into fratching mode. You are correct though, when they slap me..it means for me to leave. What happens to them after that..I am sad to say is not my business any longer (probably wasn't in the first place..but I just can't stand abuse).

[Sage Blackthorn]

I don't post here often, because not much gets me into fratching mode. You are correct though, when they slap me..it means for me to leave. What happens to them after that..I am sad to say is not my business any longer (probably wasn't in the first place..but I just can't stand abuse).

I seem to spend most of my life in "fratching mode" (if that means having strong opinions about things and wanting to discuss them to work through issues....if it just means bitching and ranting about something that's pissing me off....well, that's happens more than I'd like, but not nearly as much as just needing to talk ideas out).

[Eisa]

Mini-rant on the saying a game or a test or whatever "raped" you. A couple of weeks ago, my roommates had some friends over and we were playing a game on Nintendo 64. [We like it OLD SCHOOL. ] I can't remember precisely what the game was, but I think it was Mario Party 2. Anyway, I won one of the mini-games, so my roomie Lacen said I "raped" her. And then some of my other roomie's guy friends were talking about something like if you asked someone who had been raped what it was like, they would answer that it was like playing Halo. WTF? I couldn't make myself actually speak up much [and at least they didn't sound very mocking in their joking], but I really wanted to be able to speak up and say: "Actually, I can tell you EXACTLY what it was like. It was nothing like playing Halo. Oh, and I can tell you from a four-year-old's perspective, an eight-to-ten-year-olds' perspective, and/or a twenty-year-old's perspective. Which would you prefer? " How fast do you think their faces would have sunk? I kind of can understand that joking about it is a way to deal with it, but in that case, I REALLY don't think you should make those jokes around anyone other than close friends who you know are ok with it/can handle the joke as just that. Not people you don't know or barely know.

Anyway. I agree with you, Mytical...as you already know. No means No. It doesn't mean maybe, not right now, or yes I'm just playing hard to get. I hate to bring so much personal experience into it, but well, yeah, I have far too much experience to go around.

And it's not explained/taught very much, either. Perhaps it's just because I come from an abusive family where they apparently wouldn't want me to know that, anyway, but I recall my abusive ex. The first night I met him [we'd known each other online for a while], he ended up asking me if I wanted to go all the way. I said no. Well, I mean, of course not! Very inexperienced here...

He decided that meant no for only about ten minutes.

Won't go into all of that specifically, [although I would like to mention that it's one of the most twisted mind-fucks I've ever experienced for someone to blatantly assault me and then ask what I was thinking and feeling after]. Anyway. I ended up going on the computer and telling some of my friends what had happened. I was very upset. I also used the specific words that he asked, I said no, and then it happened a few minutes later, anyway. Not like a few hours or something--you know, a time frame in which I PERHAPS could have legitimately changed my mind. Less than fifteen minutes.

You know what every one of them said? It was "bad communication." I still wish to this day I'd managed to talk to someone who said "Hey, wait a minute, what the fuck, that wasn't ok!" As maybe things would have turned out better. Or maybe not, but I think that night was the PERFECT window for me to realize how fucked up it was. When I was crying and bleeding everywhere.

Anyway. I don't really like people who falsely accuse, but I do try to remember that even though that specifically didn't happen, maybe something else did. Or maybe something else is wrong with them and they're hurting. Not always the case, but I'd like to think it's the majority of false accusation cases. It's especially difficult if you've had repressed memories, or something happened when you were a child. You might not remember everything right. I have no idea if my childhood memories are 100% accurate--I'm betting they're not. Or at least hoping they're not. But I do mostly know what happened and who was involved. [I also know that none of my memories were "induced" by a therapist or anyone else...they came up 'spontaneously' after being assaulted again. Although my SO could apparently tell before I remembered because he asked me before all of that if [someone] had sexually abused me, and all I could say was, "I don't remember..."] I'm sorry you were falsely accused, though, Mytical. *offers hug and cookie*

As to people who do that sort of thing with abusive relationships...hell, it's REALLY hard to get out of them. I wasn't really physically abused except for a few bruises, it was the emotional/psychological stuff [ok and the sexual stuff], and I found it amazingly difficult to realize hey, this isn't right and get away. You get stuck in this kind of...holding pattern. And you do the whole "Well, he LOVES me...and it's not ALL bad..." Never realizing until later when you look back that yeah, it is all bad. Just because he [or she] is not an ogre 24/7 doesn't mean it wasn't all bad. Of course they didn't act horrifically every minute of every day, then you WOULD have left!

Hitting you on the other hand, Mytical? I won't say that she deserved what she was getting, because she doesn't, but I hope that little incident made her take a step back and realize what that relationship is doing to her, that number one he's HITTING her and two, she's so caught up with him that she'll actually lash out at anyone who tries to help her.

Also...I'd say that I was really weird for this, but I've talked to a lot of abuse survivors who feel the same way...it's strange how I can concoct little revenge scenarios in my mind...but the thought of anything actually happening to anyone who's hurt me is really awful. Like when people tell you, "Oh he'll know what it feels like in prison" or "She'll soon be in Hell" or stuff like that. It's like...that doesn't help. That doesn't show them that what they did was wrong. All it does is senselessly hurt them/create another victim/what have you.

I wish there was a way to truly impose on someone the knowledge that what they did, when they decided not to take no for an answer, was really and truly, 100% WRONG.

Also, sorry this is so rambly. *blushes*

[Mytical]

There are no words Eisa, so I will just offer hugs. I am sorry about what happened to you. I am always around if you need to talk. *hugs*

[Eisa]

There are no words Eisa, so I will just offer hugs. I am sorry about what happened to you. I am always around if you need to talk. *hugs*

Thank you, Mytical. *hugs*

I thought of something else that greatly annoys me. When that happens to someone and people around them say/act like it was their fault. That hasn't happened so much to me personally [yet...], but holy hell, does it piss me off. It's like the whole "she was asking for it because she was dressed that way." Well, no. I have the right to walk down the middle of the street at 3 a.m. in nothing but g-string and nipple pasties and have nothing happen to me...aside from being picked up for public indecency.

[Random side-note: If anyone ever wants a song or two or more that deals with abuse...I know a ton. Heh.]

[AdminAssistant]

Also...I'd say that I was really weird for this, but I've talked to a lot of abuse survivors who feel the same way...it's strange how I can concoct little revenge scenarios in my mind...but the thought of anything actually happening to anyone who's hurt me is really awful. Like when people tell you, "Oh he'll know what it feels like in prison" or "She'll soon be in Hell" or stuff like that. It's like...that doesn't help. That doesn't show them that what they did was wrong. All it does is senselessly hurt them/create another victim/what have you.

I no longer give any kind of damn for the guy who used to date-rape me, and I do sincerely hope that his dick falls off. I don't care if he's a better person or that he has a kid now....a good case of dick rot would give me a lot to smile about.

[blas87]

I don't feel anything in my heart for people who do evil things. They deserve everything horrible that happens to them.

Some people call me barbaric, hateful, spiteful, vengeful, and all that jazz in my beliefs of the death penalty and what I think should happen to scum, but I really could care less.

There are times when you ought not be the "better" person, because you don't have to be. You always were. You weren't the one who did something morally, legally wrong, so wrong that it's despicable and a sin to most.

[kibbles]

JMO but I think making excuses for those who falsely accuse saying "maybe something happened" is tantamount to saying "maybe he/she didn't hear the person say no" There is no excuse IMO.

[Eisa]

Well, I was thinking that something is going on in that person's head to make them falsely accuse them. Either they're just being a bitch or they could honestly believe that something happened. In particular, children can honestly believe that someone did bad things to them, and later find out it never actually happened. So it isn't just one blanket "evil cunt" kind of thing.

I guess I object to all the "I hope he gets raped in prison" kind of stuff because I hate when people say it like it will make me feel better. No, it doesn't make me feel better. It doesn't take away what he/she did. It doesn't make me miraculously have my childhood/innocence/virginity/what have you back. [Although the song "I Want My Innocence Back" by Emilie Autumn is amazing.] All it does is create more suffering. And yeah, sometimes I want whoever to suffer. But it also doesn't make them realize that what they did is wrong. So...yeah.

[McDreidel09]

Y'all hit on everything that irks me. At 12, being molested by a friend was not great. At 17, being raped by a beloved boyfriend because he didn't understand "stop" was not fun. It's not fun to be held down by said beloved boyfriend and be told to "get used to it." Gaining weight and being diagnosed with OCD and becoming even more of a sex addict after is not fun. Re-learning trust for close male friends is not fun.

For anyone wondering, yes, becoming more sexual after rape is something that happens. It's something that my psychiatrist told me when I explained everything and how weird I thought it was that I could become more of a sexual being, but lose trust with my male friends.