Trying to argue how things SHOULD be...

[Rageaholic]

against people who are stuck on arguing how things are. You can make several good arguments for your case, but all these people will do is say "but the law says this" or "the bible says that". Never mind that you're arguing against what is written in the first place, you're automatically wrong.

Just as an example, I don't think anyone should be arrested for doing drugs. They're only hurting themselves and I don't see how looking them up is going to help them at all. If someone can prove me wrong with some logical reasons why drug users need to be locked up, fine. But don't tell me what I already know. I know it's the law. Cite legal sources till you're blue in the face, but that does nothing to justify the reasoning behind it.

I know I wouldn't be able to argue my way out of the police if I clearly broke a law, but I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about openly debating the purpose of said law. I'm not saying all laws or everything that is written is BS, but it's not perfect either. If we can't come with with reasons why we should follow these laws and just blindly accept, than how are we going to move foward?

[telecom_goddess]

When people do are addicted to drugs and / or alcohol it affects more people than themselves. If affects their family in a huge way, especially if the person ends up losing job after job and can't support them. Also if people turn to stealing for drug money it affects those people as well.

[the_std]

When people do are addicted to drugs and / or alcohol it affects more people than themselves.

This is an awful argument, as doing drugs does not equal addicted to drugs.

[Ipecac Drano]

The trouble is that even if one doesn't agree with the law, it's still the law and it can be enforced.

(Be sneakier.)

[smileyeagle1021]

The trouble is that even if one doesn't agree with the law, it's still the law and it can be enforced.

(Be sneakier.)

As sound as that argument is, the problem is (and I'm about to make a logical fallacy, but in this case the argument is still valid) if everyone took that view point then we'd still have slaves, women wouldn't be allowed to vote, and homosexuality would be a felony.

[Greenday]

The trouble is that even if one doesn't agree with the law, it's still the law and it can be enforced.

(Be sneakier.)

Pretty much what Smiley said, though drugs should stay illegal imo.

The OP is talking about debating if a law makes sense, then someone using the argument, "Well, the law says it's illegal so don't do it." No shit, we know it's the law. We are arguing whether or not the law makes sense, not whether or not it exists.

[AdminAssistant]

I'm guessing that the reason people say that about drugs is that they're sick and effing tired of listening to potheads bitch about the legalization of marijuana and how it would solve every problem that we have and the world would be full of unicorn piss and puppy farts. Also, the 80's obsession with cocaine in America funded a reign of terror in Colombia, so don't tell me that drugs only hurt the users.

[Rageaholic]

When people do are addicted to drugs and / or alcohol it affects more people than themselves. If affects their family in a huge way, especially if the person ends up losing job after job and can't support them. Also if people turn to stealing for drug money it affects those people as well.

Couldn't that be argued for a lot of other things? Video games, TV, and many other obsessions and behaviors (smoking and drinking are legal). It's really the individuals fault for resorting to such behaviors. And I'm all for educating kids on drugs, but threatening them with jail is not the right answer. How is putting them in with more lowlifes going to help them? Save prison for the real criminals like murderers and rapists.

And while I don't with your reason, at least it is a reason and not "IT'S THE LAW END OF DISCUSSION!!!". The latter is what my OP was aimed at.

[telecom_goddess]

I'm guessing that the reason people say that about drugs is that they're sick and effing tired of listening to potheads bitch about the legalization of marijuana and how it would solve every problem that we have and the world would be full of unicorn piss and puppy farts. Also, the 80's obsession with cocaine in America funded a reign of terror in Colombia, so don't tell me that drugs only hurt the users.

I couldn't agree more with this sentiment... And thanks Rage I was trying to do a route other than "it's illegal" cause yeah that's obvious already.

[Bronzebow]

I'm guessing that the reason people say that about drugs is that they're sick and effing tired of listening to potheads bitch about the legalization of marijuana and how it would solve every problem that we have and the world would be full of unicorn piss and puppy farts.

That is upsetting to read. Of all the plentiful reasons to not destroy people's lives over harmless voluntary actions, to not have such draconian and broad laws forcing extreme and harsh punishments out of line with anything resembling sensibility, to not have our prisons filled with harmless people or cancer patients or terminally ill and chronic pain sufferers forcefully intermingling with rapists and murderers, to not have our budgets spread and overtaxed, to not have people voting for politicians promising to go into extreme and excessive "tough on crime" binges, to actually get people help instead of torturing them and stealing their lives and destroying their families and futures on the public dime...

The law is the problem here. "Bitching" about it is the correct response.

Also, the 80's obsession with cocaine in America funded a reign of terror in Colombia, so don't tell me that drugs only hurt the users.

Actions caused by the criminalization of the substance, pushing it to the black market, bumping up the price, and making evil greedy people want to get a hit off the pay dirt. That is a monster of our own creation, as is Mexico right now.

/Rant off. Kinda a hot button for me.

It's like hiring a plumber to fix your leak, only to have him show up and yell at you because you have a busted pipe. It makes no sense. I think that some people are so caught up in what they know as 'the way of things' that changes are simply too threatening to even consider.

[blas87]

You can try to argue the benefits of legalizing marijuana (oh, for medicinal purposes of course, just like our Governor has tried to) and I'll still roll my eyes and think it's just potheads trying to get away with having their tokes and dopes in a more legit way.

I've heard some really silly arguments as of late over legalizing pot, prostitution, all kinds of crazy shit. I can't believe the kind of world people really want to live in. I have had to break off frienships because of friends who wouldn't give up smoking pot for one day to do something other than sit on the couch and toke away, or go ONE outing without trying to push others to smoke with them, because they can't handle doing anything without their pot, and listen to excuse after excuse as to why pot is not a drug, it is all natural, God made it just for us, blah blah blah blah, it helps you sleep it cures pain. All it ever did for me was make me hungry, make me lazy, make my eyes go all Taylor Swift squinty, and made me overeat and then sleep for hours on end, and then I'd get a headache when the buzz wore off. I don't see how smoking pot saves anyone's life or cures their awful pain or makes it easier to live life.

[the_std]

All it ever did for me was make me hungry, make me lazy, make my eyes go all Taylor Swift squinty, and made me overeat and then sleep for hours on end, and then I'd get a headache when the buzz wore off. I don't see how smoking pot saves anyone's life or cures their awful pain or makes it easier to live life.

Because you don't have cancer or any of the many other diseases that pot can help. Even if you don't have a disease, just because you smoke it doesn't mean you're a worthless loser who can't go a day without it. And just because some people have addiction issues and poor impulse control doesn't mean it shouldn't be legal. Your experience with it does not represent the whole of the spectrum of pot, and trying to base an opinion solely on the crap you dealt with it is incorrect and short-sighted.

[Bronzebow]

You can try to argue the benefits of legalizing marijuana (oh, for medicinal purposes of course, just like our Governor has tried to) and I'll still roll my eyes and think it's just potheads trying to get away with having their tokes and dopes in a more legit way.

I don't smoke, so I'm afraid that this view is, to put nicely, misinformed. You can hold any view you like of people who toke up, just like you can hold whatever view you'd like of anyone who drinks a beer now and then. That doesn't make it any more accurate or based in reality.

For the record, I have a close friend who's parent is suffering from cancer. He has precious little time left, and this stuff is the only medication that lets him get to sleep through the pain, or keep food down. Keep that in mind next time you roll your eyes. Hopefully, you're just one to hold your opinion instead of actively campaigning to have people like him arrested, or I hope you don't believe in karma.

I've heard some really silly arguments as of late over legalizing pot, prostitution, all kinds of crazy shit. I can't believe the kind of world people really want to live in. I have had to break off frienships because of friends who wouldn't give up smoking pot for one day to do something other than sit on the couch and toke away, or go ONE outing without trying to push others to smoke with them, because they can't handle doing anything without their pot, and listen to excuse after excuse as to why pot is not a drug, it is all natural, God made it just for us, blah blah blah blah, it helps you sleep it cures pain. All it ever did for me was make me hungry, make me lazy, make my eyes go all Taylor Swift squinty, and made me overeat and then sleep for hours on end, and then I'd get a headache when the buzz wore off. I don't see how smoking pot saves anyone's life or cures their awful pain or makes it easier to live life.

Then I guess the stuff's not for you, like it's also not for me. What you're saying here, whether you realize it or not, is that you don't like something on a personal level--identical to saying that you don't like beer or black jelly beans. Perhaps you're not even certain how people would want to live in a word with black jelly beans. How sick, right? Since you don't like these things, people who DO eat black jelly beans, drink beer or toke up should be arrested, lose their right to vote, lose their families, lose their jobs, and be stuffed in small rooms to be raped and laughed at. It only makes sense.

I'm sorry your ex-friends don't know about moderation. But to be frank? It's none of your business. Maybe, just maybe, they should get help instead of being made felons. Maybe it doesn't work as medication for you, but it does for others, and your opinion does not trump actual scientific study and real world results. It's simply not your right as an individual to demand that others succumb to your iron clad will.

I notice you said that you've "heard" arguments, but I don't see that you've actually listened to them. Perhaps if you were to actually look into the issues I've listed instead of rolling your eyes, you would see this. We have a problem, and dismissing it with ad hominem's won't magically make it go away.

[blas87]

And wherever in that last post of mine did I ever say everyone who smokes pot is a loser?

Offering your own opinion is sure enough on this site to stir up someone to put words in your mouth or jump to conclusions.

Just because we don't agree on nearly anything doesn't give you the right to put words in my mouth. It is my opinion. I don't believe in legalizing pot. You apparently do. Just because I know some losers and abusers doesn't mean I think they are ALL that way (oh, does this ring a bell, the prostitution thread where I supposedly said I was better than prostitutes?), but my own experience is enough to base my opinion on it. I don't think it's a good idea. That is my opinion. Obviously, you think I need some more experiene or research, that is fine. Maybe next time, word it "Perhaps you should visit a hospital and see a cancer patient or a person with fibromayalga before you make an opinion like that" instead of making this thread about "Just because you know one or two people like that doesn't mean that they ALL ARE."

And to you, Bronze....Where in the fucking thread did I ever say that they should be made felons and jailed? Where? How about you cool off your panties before you hop down my throat.

But since you sank to that level, here I go: Until you experience what it is like to be friends with and date people who have no goals or ambitions in life other than to drink themselves into a coma or smoke themselves until they can hardly say a coherent sentence, don't get hissy with me, either. I've experienced my own problems with alcohol and I overcame it. All of my anti-drunk diatrabes are not biased goody two shoes Mary Jane dribble. I was once there. It breaks my fucking heart to see people that I once cared about (or still do) abusing alcohol or prescription pills. But I have lost the patience and tolerance of dealing with people like that when they have proven to have no incentive to better themselves and stop it.

And to be blunt with you: It is my fucking business if someone is smoking pot and working nearby me or driving on the same road as me, as it would be if they were drinking or taking medication they weren't prescribed to or abusing it. If you are jeopardizing safety, it is my fucking business.

[the_std]

But since you sank to that level, here I go: Until you experience what it is like to be friends with and date people who have no goals or ambitions in life other than to drink themselves into a coma or smoke themselves until they can hardly say a coherent sentence, don't get hissy with me, either. I've experienced my own problems with alcohol and I overcame it.

This is, again, incredibly pretentious. Those of us who support pot might have done the exact same thing. I have a drug-dealing little brother who tore my family apart with arrests and lies and bringing home dangerous people and making my house unsafe. To the outsider, him smoking pot is what started it all. It caused him a lot of problems. But I don't blame the pot, nor do I blame a car for my friends who died in a wreck. I will not agree with the criminalization of pot just because people like my brother make bad choices. It is not the pot that's bad, it is the choices they make.

By the way, blas, we're not getting "hissy" with you. We are debating your opinion. If you can't see that without taking it personally, perhaps a debate thread is not for you.