Stupid Attendence Policy

[Rageaholic]

My College has this blanket policy for all courses. If you miss 3 sessions (unless there's "extenuating circumstances"), you fail the class no matter what. This means that you can master the subject, but still fail because you missed a few classes.

I've said how I feel about these rules in other threads and I'll say it here. If you know the material and passed the tests, it shouldn't matter how many sessions you missed. In some cases, not attending will affect your grade because you missed some important assignments or tests. Otherwise, what you missed can be made up with extra studying at home. There's a huge difference between someone who misses class and never makes up the work and someone who keeps on top of stuff despite missing the class.

As for "extenuating circumstances", I'm not going to the doctor just to get a note when I know it's a cold or sinuses.

[Greenday]

Fail the class? Or just drop your grade? And what kind of classes are you taking? Three days a week classes or just one?

If you already know the material, just test out of the class and save yourself money. There are people who want to be there and are willing to pay so why should they waste a roster spot on someone who will never show up to class? I mean, you obviously don't care that much if you can't bother to show up.

[DrFaroohk]

Big difference between missing 3 classes and never bothering to show up. He paid the money, learned the material, passes the test. It's no one's business if he does this from his dorm, the classroom, the library, or even from the bar.

It's just a rule people like to throw in there to maintain what they think of as "order". If a professor failed me after I got a 4.0 in his class just because I missed 3 out of like 30 sessions, I'd be extremely pissed.

[telecom_goddess]

I dunno the way I see it is if you register for a class you should show up.....unless you are just to violently ill to go. In which case if you are that sick hopefully you have gone to the dr. If it's just a case of the sniffles or whatever then you're healthy enough to go to class. If you want a class where you don't have to show up all the time take it online or something.

[Greenday]

I dunno the way I see it is if you register for a class you should show up.....unless you are just to violently ill to go. In which case if you are that sick hopefully you have gone to the dr. If it's just a case of the sniffles or whatever then you're healthy enough to go to class. If you want a class where you don't have to show up all the time take it online or something.

Exactly. Signing up for the class is basically signing a contract that says you will show up to class. If you are sick enough to miss class, you are sick enough to go to the school's cheap health center and get them to verify that you ARE sick. If you just have the sniffles...deal with it like everyone else does. Bring some tissues, sit in the back, and cover your mouth when you sneeze.

[DrFaroohk]

So what's the justification for failing someone if they've missed a bunch of classes but passed all the tests and got an A?

If you can be failed for not showing up, regardless of your grade, you should pass if you show up, regardless of your grade.

[AdminAssistant]

Exactly. Signing up for the class is basically signing a contract that says you will show up to class. If you are sick enough to miss class, you are sick enough to go to the school's cheap health center and get them to verify that you ARE sick. If you just have the sniffles...deal with it like everyone else does. Bring some tissues, sit in the back, and cover your mouth when you sneeze.

Yup. Now, if a student is contagious, then I want them to go to the doc and get better. But having the sniffles doesn't get me out of my obligation to teach, so it doesn't get them out of their obligation to come to class and pay attention for the duration of the lecture.

ETA: I've been teaching discussion sections for 5 semesters, and I had a year of teaching before that. Attendance ties pretty much directly into grade performance, always. The students who are present and active in discussion always, without exception, do better than those who come to class whenever and sit in the back playing on their phones and shit. Besides, why the hell would you go to college if you didn't want to go to classes??

[Greenday]

So what's the justification for failing someone if they've missed a bunch of classes but passed all the tests and got an A?

If you can be failed for not showing up, regardless of your grade, you should pass if you show up, regardless of your grade.

Try this. Go up to your boss and say, "If I don't receive pay when I don't show up, I should receive pay when I do show up, regardless of whether or not I do anything." I'd love to see how that works out.

It's going to work for 8 hours a day, but only actually work 1 hour a day. Why should you be rewarded for that?

[DrFaroohk]

Because going to work requires your presence. There ARE people who can skip classes and study on their own.

The class is about the GRADE. If you get an A why does it matter if you were there or not?

Think of a job where you are hired not to show up for a specific amount of time, but hired to do a specific amount of work. So you sell your 3 cars, then your day is done. But suddenly later your asshole of a boss decides, just because he feels inferior because he never had any friends and became a car salesman, decides to not pay you anyway, even tho you fulfilled your obligation to the company.

[Greenday]

Because going to work requires your presence. There ARE people who can skip classes and study on their own.

The class is about the GRADE. If you get an A why does it matter if you were there or not?

Think of a job where you are hired not to show up for a specific amount of time, but hired to do a specific amount of work. So you sell your 3 cars, then your day is done. But suddenly later your asshole of a boss decides, just because he feels inferior because he never had any friends and became a car salesman, decides to not pay you anyway, even tho you fulfilled your obligation to the company.

I know there are people who can skip classes and study on their own. I've done it before when it was allowed.

The class is NOT about the grade. College is about preparing you for the work world.

If you are hired for a job where you have no set hours, just a "show up and sell cars", your boss cannot legally not pay you. Regardless, this example has no parallels to the classroom. Your job in college is to go to class and learn. Otherwise you could just skip college and read text books.

[Rageaholic]

Doc said it. We're not talking about students who constantly skip class to get high or play WoW. We're talking about missing a few days but otherwise keeping on top of things. And colds are not "sniffles". I've had some nasty colds that took a lot out of me (same with sinuses). I know what I have and I know how to deal with it, so I don't need to go to the doctor.

Lastly, college is not the same as a job. In a job, I get paid for being there and working. In college, I'm paying to learn. In a lot of cases, class time is spent just going over the textbook. I can get the same thing by just reading the text and taking notes (it actually works better for me because some teachers I've had only make it ten times more complicated than it is). Some may not be able to keep up the pace if they miss a class or 2, but don't lump them all in that category.

[Eisa]

*blinks* Wow, I didn't know that in the work world, I had to pay to do it, and learn shit that has nothing to do with what I want to do. Rage said it, too--oh look, I can read a textbook! I'm so special!

I am so glad my school doesn't have a policy like that. Some of my individual classes have policies where attendance counts for points, but that's it. That would piss me off. So I missed 4 days, but all of a sudden I'm failing, even though I've gotten straight A's on everything? Gee, thanks. What about mental health days? 'Cause there has been no way in hell I'm going to class when I'm flashbacking and feel like I'm trapped in a horrific memory loop. But I am NOT going to go to the doctor to "confirm" that, what on earth would be the point? "Oh, hi, you have PTSD. Good luck with that."

Or having the "sniffles." Yeah...I had the "sniffles" this past month. I finally went to the doctor because I wasn't getting better at all. My "sniffles?" Was a really bad sinus infection.

But anyway...there's a BIG difference between people who cba to come to class at all and don't care, and people who have just missed more than 3 days.

[AdminAssistant]

What about mental health days? 'Cause there has been no way in hell I'm going to class when I'm flashbacking and feel like I'm trapped in a horrific memory loop. But I am NOT going to go to the doctor to "confirm" that, what on earth would be the point? "Oh, hi, you have PTSD. Good luck with that."

Students who have genuine mental health issues should go to a psych, get a note, and get help through the office of Student Success (or Disability Services or whatever it's called at your university). If a student has a verified problem that I know about, then I can help them. I can be lenient on the attendance policy. I can provide alternatives to group projects, give extra time for exams, etc. But if they aren't willing to take those steps, then there's nothing I can do.

See, here's the kicker, professors *want* their students to do well. The university wants you to do well. They want you to succeed and graduate so that their retention/graduation rates improve. They want you to have a successful career so that you will turn around and give them money. That's what's in the best interest of the institution, and therefore, the faculty. (Granted, the faculty might care more if most weren't being paid subsistence wages but that's a separate rant.)

Oh, and I can understand "mental health days" if you have a mental health problem. (Again, if you don't tell your professor what's going on they can't help you.) Otherwise, that's not a "mental health day" that's a "I'm too damn lazy/tired/whatever to go to class day". Yeah, college can be stressful. It's hard (although it seems to be getting easier with the admittance of students who came through the NCLB system). However, the difficulty of college is no big secret. College is also not mandatory. If you don't like it or can't handle it, then do something else.

[Eisa]

I've told some of my professors before--that's how I got out of going to the rape/childhood sexual abuse lectures in my Human Sexuality class. But I'm not exactly in the best of moods to try and get accommodation when I tried to petition for withdrawal from my French class [which actually, I didn't have the pre-req for, my prof just said I could do it...which wasn't true in the end], and basically said that my PTSD issues plus the stress of a class that was too hard for me was too much...and they said that the only way it mattered enough was for me to withdraw from all my classes. Even though I worked my ass off to try to make it so it was just one class that was bothering me, even though I went to class anyway when I was having awful days...so I think I basically went fuck it, they don't need to know.

And again, we're allowed to miss class. I only have one class now where attendance is a specific factor in my grade at all, and that's actually extra credit points...we start with 5 and then lose one when we're absent.

[AdminAssistant]

Well, there are always assholes wherever you go, and some of them work in higher education. As important as I think attendance is, automatic failure after missing 3 classes seems to be a bit much, unless it's a lab or an acting class where you can't learn unless you're there. Our class has a certain percentage of the total grade for attendance, and each unexcused absence means the loss of one percentage point. (Those who miss a lot also lose participation points, since you can't participate unless you're there.)