Stupid Attendence Policy

[telecom_goddess]

Hm, you rang?

I was under the impression that most jobs still have set hours.

Yes they do....it was mentioned or implied that college graduates somehow get to do the magic job where it's not shift work and more flexible. The the loan officer guy that was mentioned....where it's more about production than being there all the time. I wish I had that kind of job frankly.

And another thing....what is considered a college graduate anyway? I have an associates degree (and gee not really using it ) and went through the graduation and all that...yet it somehow doesn't seem to count when I'm asked how much college I've had. At best it gets listed as "some college"

Just cause it's 2 years instead of 4 doesn't make it any less important. And I had excellent attendance btw

[DrFaroohk]

My situation was actually comparable to the school situation. Yours was not.

If teachers/schools wanted kids to learn only from the text books, it'd be an online college. If you don't want to go to class, that would be your best choice. A college where students are supposed to go to class would prefer students who, you know, go to class. So it only makes sense to enact policies discouraging people from skipping.

I don't see how yours was any more comparable than mine. But anyway...the point is if you can pass the test, you learned the material. If the material in the text isn't important, why are students tested on it?

Something's just not adding up. I say again - let the grade speak for itself.

[Greenday]

Mine is more comparable because mine is literally the exact same situation, except I substituted grade with pay and school with work.

[guywithashovel]

Workplaces generally have exceptions for emergencies, do they not? Sure, it would be unusual for them all to involve the same day of the week and fall within one semester, but a serious illness, a death in the family, and a car accident (for example) are all perfectly legitimate reasons to miss work, and anyone who would fire you for being unfortunate to have all three happen within months of each other is not one you're likely to stay with long anyway. They might ask for proof, but they ought at least to recognize that sometimes these things happen.

Ever since I started working here, I've thought that the attendance policy was a little steep. At the very least, I wish they would include jury duty as an excused absence. Kind of strange, because I thought we were required by law to excuse that. Guess not.

When they explain it to the students, they always emphasize that they count attendance by the hour and not by the day. So if something comes up and you have to take someone to an appointment or whatever, they encourage you to go ahead and come to class, since you'll still be credited for the time that you were there. Basically, if you have a dentist appointment at 5:00, and your class starts at five, you could show up at 6:00 and only be counted as missing one hour.

I can understand why colleges and professors have attendance policies, though I'm not sure if I would enforce one if I were a prof and had the power to do so. When a lot of people get to college, they quickly realize that it isn't like high school where a truant officer will be hunting them down if they're not in class, and as a result they end up missing classes because they have a headache, because they didn't get much sleep the night before, because they stayed out late the night before, etc. Habits like that need to be extinguished quickly, for obvious reasons.

[Rageaholic]

and what about "oh hey I missed the last three classes where you went over these concepts, I read the book but didn't quite understand them, could you either take time away from the other students in class to go over them with JUST ME, or take time away from grading papers/assisting students with this weeks material to go over them after class."

coughstrawmancough

We're not talking about students who ask for help after missing class. We're talking about students who manage to catch up ON THEIR OWN despite missing the classes. Under this policy, they would end up failing anyway. It doesn't even give them a chance.

I'm sure I've posted about my college statistics professor before. This guy--the same asshole who had a temper tantrum at the bank over the ATM being down--really was a piece of work. He actually said that if a student missed *one* class, we had to get a doctor's note for it.

Problem with that idea? What if we got a heavy snow, and I couldn't make it to school? Suppose I'm sitting in a ditch somewhere, because PennDOT decided to make coffee and donuts instead of plowing the fucking road. Would he accept a note from them? Of course not! Point being, that sometimes "shit happens," and there's not a damn thing I can do about it.

That brings up another problem with this policy I didn't mention. So far, none of my professors have a sign in sheet. They all take attendance at the beginning of class. While there's one who I know includes even those who arrive late, I'm not sure about the others (I'll have to talk to them since I have arrived late a few times).

I'm praying that I have been including when late because otherwise I'm fucked. That means that just being late alone could mean an absense if you're not careful. With construction and road work up the wazoo, trains, idiot drivers, cops, and several other things that can slow you down, making you late, this is not a good thing. Sure, I can probably talk with my professors since they are usually understanding of the phrase "shit happens", but then again, if this policy was never in place to begin with, this wouldn't be a problem.

Lastly, what is one to do if they already missed 3 classes? They've already failed so why even bother doing anything for that class if they're gonna fail no matter what? And yes, it is possible to do horrible at the start of a semester and completely turn yourself around.

Exactly. It's paying vs. performing a service. Some of these professors forget they work for the student. It's not the other way around. I know they work for the school, but seriously where does the school get its money? The students. How would YOU treat an employee who started throwing attitude at you because you didn't live up to HIS standard? Fuck the employee! He works for you, not the other way around. You pay him to do a job. A student pays the teacher to teach, not nitpick about stupid shit like how often he shows up. If he fails the class, obviously he didn't learn anything. If he passes the test and gets an A, he learned something, and obviously if passes the tests he's learned everything the teacher felt relevent enough to put on the test, regardless of what his GPS coordinates were when he learned it.

Agree with that philosophy to an extent. In this case, it applies. You pay good money to go to college and learn. Basically, we're paying for them to tell us what to do (which is kind of fucked up).

And before someone throws the "entitlement whore" card, we're not talking about any extrodinary or special treatment. We're not asking for them to pass us for doing nothing. We're not asking for them to personally teach us anything. All we are asking is to be trusted to keep up with the material on our own merits. We shouldn't have to explain to them why we missed class (unless it was a test or something that we want to make up) just to be excused. As doc said,

Again, to reiterate here: Let the students pass or fail on their own merits. If you can miss a quarter of the classes and still pass the final exam, you learned the material. If the final exam wasn't comprehensive of the material, that's the teacher's problem, not the students. If the student didn't learn shit and flunked everything, let it be because their grade reflected it. Amen.

If the school heads are too bullheaded to change such an unnecessary policy (for EVERYONE, not just me), then I have to ask, WTF?

[McDreidel09]

I know I usually agree with people on here for the most part, but this is one subject that I can be a complete bitch about.

Oh no! Having to attend class?! How dare they!

So you get the material already and you feel it is a waste of time? Tough noogies. Go to class. I don't understand why people pay money for the class and then not go. Honestly, going to class will help you out in the end. If you go to all the classes and are really good to the professor, then they are more willing to be flexible with you when something happens. I am one of those people who get sick and get hit hard. So, I email my professors and inform them that I am sick and ask them for any work that I can make up for the class.

What do ya know? They give me the work, I get full credit, and I'm on their good side. If there is a family gathering that I need to go to, they are more than happy to work with me.

What about pop quizzes that the profs might give? They may be small points, but in the end, they can make a difference. What about extra credit or bonus point opportunities they might present? I have yet to have a professor that would send an email about bonus point stuff. Again, they may be small points, but in the end, they add up.

I have depression and OCD. My depression spells get really bad, but I still drag my ass to class because I know I have to. If a topic that makes me uncomfortable in class (I once left when talking about suicide in Intro to Psych because the circumstances going on at the time) will be discussed, I go up to the prof, explain the situation, and ask if I can leave when that comes up, while assuring them that I have the information I needed and will be able to do that part of the exam. More likely than not, they are more than happy to let me leave.

[DrFaroohk]

Mine is more comparable because mine is literally the exact same situation, except I substituted grade with pay and school with work.

Except, it's not the exact same situation, because one is work, and one is school. And showing up to work and doing nothing and expecting to get paid for it =/= working your butt off to get an A in a class that for whatever reason which is no one else's business you didn't make it to every single one.

I think there's a lot of strawmanning going on in this debate. To clear it up, this is not about:

A) People who expect to do no work and get an A.

B) People who skip every single class.

C) People who skip classes where you can't do the work outside of class, like labs or theater classes.

D) People asking the professor for extra free time.

E) Drug addicts who molest children while they're not in class.

To clear it up further, we're talking about ONE GUY. This one guy missed maybe 10% of classes, and still got an A. A 4.0. However the fuck they grade it.

What is wrong with him being able to pass the class even though he missed 1, 3, 5 or however many classes?

[Greenday]

Based on your arguments, it seemed like you were implying the situation of never going to class. If you only skip a couple classes, whatever your reasoning being, as long as you do your work and don't complain about any extra credit or pop quizzes you miss, whatever.

[Andara Bledin]

ETA: I've been teaching discussion sections for 5 semesters, and I had a year of teaching before that. Attendance ties pretty much directly into grade performance, always.

Nice absolute you have going there.

Too bad it's wrong.

By all rights and rules, I should have been failed out of every single class during all 7 years of middle and high school due to attendance. My average number of missed days equalled out to approximately 3 times the stated limit, and I don't believe I ever actually had a doctor's note at any of those times (I could self-induce vomiting, so I'd do that and get out of afternoon classes because they bored me to freaking tears. I was usually borderline honor roll, and I would have been honor roll all through school if I'd bothered to do more of the homework assignments.

I actually went to my college classes; Those were actually teaching me material I didn't already know.

I don't understand why people pay money for the class and then not go.

Because there are cases where you have to take a class on a subject you already know but the school won't let you test out, either because they don't offer it for that class, or you've already tested out of too many other classes.

It's a one-size-fits-all measure designed for an industrial society. Which we haven't been for well over a decade.

^-.-^

[Eisa]

I graduated high school with high honors myself...although I did go. I was still bored in most of my classes, even though they were honors/AP. My last semester, I took 3 English classes. AP Lit, Sci Fi/Fantasy, and Mythology. That was actually really fun lol.

I think your performance in a class corresponds more with how well you're going to understand the material in the first place. If you need to hear the prof say it and explain it, then yeah, you're probably not going to do as well if you miss a ton of class. On the other hand...if you can learn it on your own? Your grade should do fine.

I had a semester where I missed a fuck-load of days. I couldn't make myself go. I did assignments the literal day they were due.

I not only passed all my classes, I think I got all A's/A-'s, with perhaps a B+ thrown in there.

[Rageaholic]

Because there are cases where you have to take a class on a subject you already know but the school won't let you test out, either because they don't offer it for that class, or you've already tested out of too many other classes.

It's a one-size-fits-all measure designed for an industrial society. Which we haven't been for well over a decade.

^-.-^

Took the words right out of my mouth. I take the classes because it's the only way to get the credit I need. Besides, I don't always know if I'm going to get a teacher who can't teach. In those cases, it would be better to learn it on my own and go to class for the tests and projects.

[Eisa]

Took the words right out of my mouth. I take the classes because it's the only way to get the credit I need. Besides, I don't always know if I'm going to get a teacher who can't teach. In those cases, it would be better to learn it on my own and go to class for the tests and projects.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. At my school, there are very, very few classes you can test out of. I think the only ones, actually, are language classes. There are some you can test out beforehand, like if you've taken an AP test and done well, or the compass test, or the SAT/ACT if you did REALLY well on a section, but...that's basically it. Otherwise, you're stuck taking it, even if you could basically recite the textbook by heart and are bored out of your skull.

[McDreidel09]

Really? So knowing the material well means you can skip class? I am taking a class right now that consists of "learning" about things that we have had beaten into our skulls since we were young. These things I am "learning"? Using sunscreen, what a balanced diet is, that I need to exercise, wear a seatbelt, etc. I have to take this class in order to graduate, as does anyone within the University of Wisconsin system, whether they are where I am or in Mad Town or Waters of White. You know what I do? I put on my big girl panties and attend this class because I want to graduate. I don't get my degree unless this class is passed. I bitch about having to take it later.

And let's look outside of what we need. Let's look at other people too. Every class has a cap on how many students it can take. By enrolling yourself in a class, that means one less seat in the classroom for another student. If you don't attend class, then that seat could have been filled by someone who actually wanted to be there. I have a friend who is currently taking a course that I wanted, but couldn't get into because by the time I could enroll, the class was filled. People don't show up to that class. One of those seats could have been mine.

Just an fyi, I hate gen eds as much as the next person. However, since I have to take them, I just do it.

[AdminAssistant]

Nice absolute you have going there.

Too bad it's wrong.

Sorry, I didn't realize that your one, personal experience outweighed my 3 1/2 years of TA'ing college classes and grading. As a whole, the students who do not attend class regularly do worse than those that do.

[Andara Bledin]

Sorry, I didn't realize that your one, personal experience outweighed my 3 1/2 years of TA'ing college classes and grading. As a whole, the students who do not attend class regularly do worse than those that do.

You said "always." Either it is always or it isn't always, and my "one, personal experience" is in direct opposition to your "always."

I don't dispute that the vast majority of students need to attend classes in order to make the grade. I wouldn't have dared skip my medical and legal terminology classes; even though the learning could have been done via the books, the teacher was engaging and very good and actually made the process much easier. My court reporting class, however, was merely group readings, most of which could have been done just about anywhere with a tape player. But we had to attend because they were used as progress indicators, so every class was like a mini-quiz.

^-.-^