Selective memory

[Mytical]

The Mods are only hated by half? Dang you are good. I know I have to be hated by 75-85% of the forum I moderate. Most think "Mytical is too soft", some thing "Mytical is a Nazi", and the rest think "Doesn't matter, burn Mytical either way!"

For the record..some people I consider friends had issues with some of the things that went down. However, this doesn't affect my respect for the Moderators at all. It's a hard job, and no matter what..you can't make everybody happy. I empathize with them, of course, but that will not affect my actions. The Mods have nothing but respect from me.

[Ree]

Today, just by chance, I happened to open up the email account that I don't use very often, and I came across a note from a member who was banned a while back.
The note was from early December.

They had asked me a question, so, as a courtesy, I answered it. This member has a habit of stretching out every little situation to span numerous emails, hammering point after point ad nauseum, and I really wasn't looking forward to going through that whole emailing boomerang again. I had hoped to head it off by offering the information that I was not really being all that active as a mod, and had actually been taking a break and had even considered resigning.
Unfortunately, rather than taking the hint and just letting it drop, they sent another message to tell me what they thought of me.

This was just part of it:

I'm glad you're resigning as a moderator. My friends at CS deserve a better mod than what you offer. And I learned this from trusted friends what you and the other moderators have done when it comes to implementing the system.

*sigh*
I feel very bad that this person is still harbouring such hatred for me after so long.

I really hope they are able to move on because having that level of hatred festering under the surface is really not healthy.

I certainly don't waste energy and sleep time and increase my own stress level by finding ways to continue hating them.

I told this person that I only wish them the best. I really hope that ends it.

[LexiaFira]

sounds like that person has nothing better to do or actively chooses to be a pain like that.
Thats what bothers me, this is all online, intangible stuff, as much as it would anger someone if it were face to face its not face to face, its not like anyone really got hurt beyond pride....yet its as real as anything to this person who chooses to hate you for doing your job...hugs Don't worry about what they think as you pointed out its not something worth losing sleep over.

[Ree]

This person claims they were never warned, and then simply banned.

We have a policy where we don't reveal the disciplinary measures taken by the mod team, but in this case, the member mentions that they have friends still on the site who are backing up the mod abuse claims without knowing all the facts.

This is the member's CS infraction history:

• 11/08/08 - Expiring point for continuing to debate an issue regarding laws and civilian rights after being asked to stop, twice - This was in one of the member's first threads. They had only joined about 2 weeks prior. Member was warned to steer away from controversial topics and refrain from debating.

• 11/30/08 - Permanent point issued. Posted what appeared to be a threat to a member. A ban was also issued, but was reversed and a temp moderation was put in place when the member claimed it was not an actual threat, but a line from a movie. Member was unable to cite an exact source, but because it did seem familiar to me, even though I was unable to find a source, either, I advocated for the ban removal and moderation only. Member was asked to be very careful about wording in posts.

• 05/28/09 - Expiring points issued. Made 2 "Fail to see the suck" type comments in one thread, both of which were either edited or removed, and continued to debate why they felt the customer wasn't sucky with "world going to hell in a handbasket" fratching type comments.

• 05/30/09 - Expiring points issued, and then removed. Member was again debating within a thread, using fail to see the suck type comments. They insulted another member, and when that member called them on it, they posted that they had been going to apologize, but were not going to do that now. After the points were issued, the member made a "last goodbye" post on the board. That is an automatic banning on our site. After some consideration about a possible misunderstanding over the reason for the goodbye post, since it was a goodbye to let people know the member was probably going to be off the board for several months, and not actually a "goodbye cruel management" post, the ban was lifted, and the member was put on moderation again so that all posts had to be approved.

• 04/03/10 - Permanent point issued. Did not report a post and then admitted that they knew it was fratching material, but they just wanted to add one thing. At that time, the member was told they now had 2 permanent points, and if they earned another 3 points, they would be on permanent moderation. They were also warned that earning 8 more points resulted in an automatic ban.

• 04/12/10 - Member was banned after yet again posting a controversial "fratching" comment.

Through all that time, there were PM's sent to the member as well. They were away from the board for a while, then came back and managed to play nice for a bit, but then, in early 2010, we decided to remove the moderation, and the member seemed to take it as a blanket permission to once again debate "FTSTS", and post about fratching topics

The member was still allowed to post on fratching, even though we usually ban members from both sites.
We felt the member was not deliberately defying the mods at CS, but that their posting style was more suited to fratching.
Unfortunately, the member then began to get quite nasty in some of the comments, resorting to personal attacks and insults.
Posts were constantly being reported by other members for insults and personal attacks.

• 04/26/10 - Received 5 permanent points for attacking another member instead of debating.(Told another member to "Shove it".) Member was warned that any more incidents would also result in a ban from fratching.

• 10/14/10 - Member was finally banned for taking a debate off the board and attacking another member through an uninitiated PM.

Again, in that time, the member was getting PM's from the mods regarding behaviour.
At one point, the member began reporting every post where someone disagreed with them, claiming that they were offended by the comments. Some of them could have been seen as attacks, and editing was done, with the offending members contacted, but many of them were simply the member not being able to hold their own in a debate.

In June of 2010, the member decided to play martyr with a self imposed exile, asking us to put them on moderation. We refused and asked why they didn't just step away from the keyboard if they could not trust themselves to post without insulting another member.

So, I ask you, does that sound like someone who was simply banned out of the blue with no explanation or warning?

[JustaCashier]

Ree, that person was given plenty of warnings.

It appears to me, that if they didn't sign up at CS and Fratching, to be a troll right from the start, they became a troll after the various incidents and forms of infractions.

They got all pissed off, and their widdle feewings hurt, and by golly, Ree, you were gonna pay for it!!


Just remember, as you've seen in all of the responses on this thread, you have a lot more people that support you than not.

Hang in there....

Mike

[Ree]

I'm thinking the attitude is sort of like, "Yeah, you warned me about a bunch of other stuff, but I didn't think it was all that bad. When you banned me, though, you didn't tell me it was going to happen right then. Sure, you said it could happen, but you didn't tell me the point when you decided it would."



What bothers me most, though, is when that skewed side of the story gets passed on to others, and then it becomes a mentality of mods abusing their powers and taking revenge on everybody who doesn't agree with them.

[iradney]

What's hilarious, is when members don't realise that we actually talk to each other. All decisions are run past the site owner. When we send PM's, we run the PMs past each other to make sure that they sound good, and aren't aggressive (it can happen by accident, I wish there was tone of voice for text!).

As mentioned by a PP, this is Raps' house. His house, his rules. When you sign up, you have to agree to the rules before you can go any further. As for the Freedom of Speech thing, CS.com is hosted in the UK - the first amendment doesn't apply at all.

I've been a member of CS.com for just over 4 years now, and I haven't had any problems following the rules. Sometimes I'll type up a post, but before I post it, I read over it. If I think it goes over the line, I discard it. It's just like what my Mom says: "Think before you ink!"

Members need to realise - we have day jobs too. We have real life commitments, and we're human just like everyone else. We don't get paid to do this job, we do it because we love CS.com and want to make sure it's a haven for other members.

Most of the time, when we have to tell a member that "sorry, you kind of overstepped the line here", they're very polite and nice about it. It's the members that are completely unrepentant and repeat offenders for something they have been warned about again and again and again that start having an attitude; and badmouthing mods.

We always tell members to please let Raps know if they disagree with the PM, infraction or whatever. If Ree (or any mod) was really abusing their power, do you think they would even still have an account at CS? Raps prefers to keep troublemakers out - and that includes mods on a powertrip. Food for thought.

[JustaCashier]

As far as I'm concerned, they could just go piss up a rope as far as being upset that you didn't let them know about the ban"right then". They had plenty of warnings, they knew they were already skating on thin ice.

As far as the skewed side of the story, I suppose that just goes with the territory, and as a Mod you have to expect that disgruntled people may resort to something like that.

But, you are also human, and subject to the feelings and emotions as everyone else. And someone pulling such shit, and others believing that person 100%, especially when you don't have a chance to defend yourself, can sting a bit, and be maddening.

Much like being a Lead at work. You interact with these people on a regular basis, and bond with some of them. It gets tough, when you have to put your foot down with someone that you really like, or, defend someone you're not too fond of when they are in the right, especially if there was an incident between them, and someone you do like.

I believe I mentioned in a previous post on this thread, that even though I've been a Lead Cashier at a hardware store, and a Manager in the parking business. I consider myself to be very lacking in dealing with conflict involving others. I have an innate desire to please everybody, and don't deal well with conflict.

So yeah, being in a Lead/Manager postion in the future is probably out for me. Similarly, I will probably never be an Admin/Mod on an Internet Forum. I think it takes a certian type of person. One who can think critically, fairly and on their feet, and realize they will step on a few toes, and try not to let the negative reactions bother them. But, again, being human it's tough. Especially when the person that incurred infractions, or was banned, is being a total asshole about it, and others let themselves be influenced by that person, and don't stop to think that ther's another side to the story. Kinda like the old torch and pitchfork thing.


Mike

[RecoveringKinkoid]

The really annoying thing about what Ree posted is that while this is an extreme case, it by no means is an isolated one. There are some people out there who simply cannot tolerate even friendly suggestions to tone it down. I'm not even talking about handing out infractions or banning. I'm talking about simply editing out offensive material and sending a polite and friendly note to the poster about why we'd done it.

And it IS hard, especially when you are fond of someone, to have to be the one to call them in line. It sucks. We have personal feelings about things, too. I have had to step in on people I heartily agreed with. That sucks, too.

There have been cases where we've had to become emotionless rules lawyers just to get through some issue or another. That was the only way to be fair and keep our feelings out of it. When you have to do that on someone you actually like and agree with, it becomes a hard, joyless task.

Anyone who thinks the mods are enjoying "being mean" to people "for no reason" is sadly delusional.

How I wish we could show you all some of what goes on behind the scenes. It would definately change some views.

[iradney]

What RK said. It's quite ironic how customerssuck.com has a few SC's of it's own!!

[JustaCashier]

What RK said. It's quite ironic how customerssuck.com has a few SC's of it's own!!

QFT

That's what really pisses me off, and I believe I mentioned in a previous post that we are supposed to be above that. Not that we are super special people, but that CS is a place for us to come together, vent, share stories, and support each other pretty much in anonymity, not to stoop down to the same level as the SC's we're complaining about.

Mike

[Lace Neil Singer]

What's hilarious, is when members don't realise that we actually talk to each other. All decisions are run past the site owner. When we send PM's, we run the PMs past each other to make sure that they sound good, and aren't aggressive (it can happen by accident, I wish there was tone of voice for text!).

This, so much. The forum where I admin, my supermod once had a PM from an offender who'd just returned from a temp ban (issued cuz she sent me several abusive PMs, after I told her to fix her signature, which broke signature rules. She was eventually banned for six months, after she signed into two extra accounts to hurl more abuse. Both accounts were deactivated.)

She sent what was a basic sob story, claiming she'd been unfairly banned by the evil cruel Admin, ie me, and asking the supermod to sort me out. Supermod forwarded the PM to me, and we both had a good laugh, cuz when the offender had sent her abusive missives to me, I'd forwarded them to Supermod and we'd also informed the mods about her. A lot of these people seem to think that forum staff don't communicate at all. XD

As mentioned by a PP, this is Raps' house. His house, his rules. When you sign up, you have to agree to the rules before you can go any further. As for the Freedom of Speech thing, CS.com is hosted in the UK - the first amendment doesn't apply at all.

That was me. ^^

[Ginger Tea]

After she signed into two extra accounts to hurl more abuse. Both accounts were deactivated.)

Some sites have instant perma bans on the use of sockpuppets even if neither account used is being used offensively, it just raises the question of why you need two (or more).

[Lace Neil Singer]

We have a rule that no-one is allowed more than one account, and also that no-one is allowed to share their account, either. If someone's banned and returns on another account, they're only hurting themselves as we add to their ban on the main one. Some people don't grasp this fact and end up with a ban which was at first only twenty four hours stretching into a two month ban or longer.

[RootedPhoenix]

Augh, people. Don't they have better things to do than antagonize others?!