It's a fictional character - chill the hell out

[Ree]

I am not disputing your studies, but I always take the claims of "studies show" with a jaded eye.

Any "study" can be skewed to the desired outcome.

You said it yourself:

it's the observers that are effected and any change in the kids is due to the observers expectations, not the actual effects

Granted, my opinion is just that, and is not based on any scientific studies that I have read or performed.

It is based on what I have seen of human nature, and what I have seen within myself, as well.

I am very interested in that "youth violence declining" study, because, within my area, I would have to call it a load of crap.

In fact, I was talking with the VP of the local high school a couple of weeks ago, and he told me that violence in the school was actually up this year.
There has been some type of physical altercation at the school pretty much every day since this school year started.
The police are being called on a weekly basis and at least one student a week ends up at the ER for treatment of some type of physical battery.
He told me, off the record, that the large majority of these incidents are now involving girls.

Our part time student employees at work are coming in daily with reports of some type of physical fight at the school that day.

My foster child constantly reports to me about some type of physical violence at the school that day.

And that's just the high school.

There is also an increase in the physical altercations in the elementary schools.

Granted, as I said, it's not very scientific, and this sudden increase in violence in my little area of the world could be based on many other factors, and maybe I am reading into it incorrectly, but I really do have to wonder why more and more of these kids are resorting to physical violence to resolve conflicts.

[kibbles]

I agree that there is too much overreaction when someone comments on a fictional character. On some soap opera boards I frequent, it is pretty good..but you always have that one poster that will attempt to make someone feel like scum because of their opinion on totally fictional people. JMO of course

[the_std]

Granted, as I said, it's not very scientific, and this sudden increase in violence in my little area of the world could be based on many other factors, and maybe I am reading into it incorrectly, but I really do have to wonder why more and more of these kids are resorting to physical violence to resolve conflicts.

I don't know, I might be more inclined to attribute the behavior shown in the post to a whole slew of other factors.

One being school officials more likely to report this behavior than they were in the past when "boys will be boys" types of mentalities ruled, along with more regulation and legal pressure to report said things as liability becomes more and more of a delicate issue, with people being far more likely to sue over such things now.

This leads me to my other big factor - responsibility. In those segments of society who are okay with taking the low way out, I feel that personal responsibility is at an all-time low. EW rationality and helicopter parents, plus our early conditioning of children not to be exposed to criticism or negativity in their lives, has bred a pretty resistant strain of illogical, selfish people. I'm not saying that the majority of the population is affected by this, but those who are willing to take the cop out are doing it to a pretty advanced degree. I feel that this overall mentality may have a lot to do with it, as parents defend Junior's fighting with lots of finger pointing everywhere but at the problem.

Personally, I see these as much bigger indicators than an overexposure to violence.

[BlaqueKatt]

Take, for example, a building in one's neighbourhood that burns down, killing several people.
On the first day we pass that scene, we see the burned out shell of a building and remember with sadness what a horrible event occurred.
For about a week after that, every time we pass by, we might be reminded, and we think about it.
As each day passes, though, the time spent thinking about it lessens, and our sadness starts to wane..

It's actually not becoming a "creature of habit" it's a psychological coping mechanism-an "emotional filter" to protect one's sanity. If aa human went through that kind of emotional pain daily-their psyche would shatter. It's known as Dyscopia-or "inability to cope"

In my opinion, it's the same with a mind that is constantly being subjected to violence.
The first time we see it, we are shocked by it, and even bothered. There might be bad dreams about it and some fears manifested.

Eventually, we see similar violent acts being reported on the evening news, and we know they aren't fictional people, but we aren't quite as bothered by the horror of it all anymore.

If this were true we would not have soldiers and EMTs/first responders with PTSD-actually PTSD would not even exist, as we as a culture are so "desensitized".(PTSD occurs in those that have only witnessed violent acts as well as those subjected to them, if we were "desensitized" it wouldn't affect us at all to witness an event)

You do have to admit, though, that society has advanced to quite a degree, and as a result, people are being exposed to violence earlier and earlier, and in many more forms than they ever have been previously.<snip>
Now, with graphics being so advanced, the characters being blasted away on computer screens and video games have much more human forms, and the children behind the joysticks or whatever are gaining points for devising creative ways of killing off these humanoid characters.

Yes because we are the first ever society that has discovered violence.

Cavemen were non-violent around children.
The childrens' crusade did not actually send children to war.
Ghengis Khan didn't kill anyone when kids were around.
The European Settlers that slaughtered Indigenous populations made sure no children witnessed it.
The slave trade from Africa/ the Caribbean and plantations in North America, didn't include any children at all.

Human children at no time in history before now were ever exposed to violence. Never had to fight to survive, hunt, kill(animals and other humans), they were kept safe and coddled in a box of cloud-like softness free of violence until the age of 18 or so......
/sarcasm

I'm notably interested in news that relates to gaming as I'm an avid gamer, and this is something that comes up over and over again and what you're saying tends to be swallowed whole without any actual scientific support.

Let's see the same argument was made against rock music.....before that it was comic books....before that it was.....wait for it....Novels.....yes books were blamed for "desensitizing humans against violence" and causing immorality. We are just a violent species-there is no definite causative factor. Heck I was more violent before I started playing video games, as I didn't have an outlet for my aggressive tendencies. And yup I have PTSD.

Additionally, if video games do cause youth to be violent, then one would expect juvenile violent crime to increase as more youth play violent video games. Instead, the arrest rate for juvenile violent crimes has fallen 49.3% between 1995 and 2008, while video game sales have quadrupled in the same period

found a couple studies for ya:
Science Daily
This one has some good information-including a chart showing the decline of youth violence vs the rise of "violent" video games.

[Ree]

I'm not saying that there has never been exposure to violence in any other generation.
In fact, I believe I admitted that I am sure there were many previous generations of children who grew up playing games modelled after violent situations in their cultures.

Yes, children in prehistoric ages were exposed to violence. Certainly children in medieval times were subjected to violence.

We are just a violent species-there is no definite causative factor.

Can you state that with certainty? Perhaps it was all of this gradually increasing exposure to violence that contributed to the evolution of humans as violent beings.

What I am saying is that ongoing and daily exposure to violence is much more prevalent in today's society, and as a result, people really have become less shocked by violent acts toward people they don't really know.

I am not saying that watching some stranger get blown away in front of one's eyes would have no emotional effect on a person at all.

I am simply saying that hearing about violence and watching the aftermath in the news does not elicit the same type of shock as it once did back before the media gave people access to images of people lying dead in streets in war torn countries. Watching fictitious characters getting killed off in violent ways, and reconciling to one's self that it's OK because it's pretend has contributed to that same desensitizing.

In the case of people who suffer PTSD from daily exposure to violence being an argument against constant exposure desensitizing people, that is not what I am referring to at all. These people in that field are cleaning up the aftermath of the violence, and are actually personally involved in the situation, so of course it is eventually going to be some type of effect on the psyche.
The thing is, there has to be a certain amount of desensitizing in order for them to return to the job daily, and perhaps it's the constant numbing and pushing it to the back of the mind to make it less real that contributes to work related PTSD. (I'm not an expert, obviously, and I am sure I will stand corrected by those with lots of links to studies that will tell me how misguided I am.)

I concede that there are others who are victims of violent events who experience PTSD as well.

Again, that is not the argument I am making.

I am referring to the fact that people are watching fictitious characters dying in very violent ways on a daily basis on TV and movie screens and even in games. In the games, the player is actually fictitiously annihilating human like characters for entertainment, or a release from stress.

Heck I was more violent before I started playing video games, as I didn't have an outlet for my aggressive tendencies.

If that's not desensitizing to violence, then I don't know what is.

In the OP, the person in question was watching a movie where a child was screaming, and it was getting to him.
He said he wanted the character to slap the kid across the face to shut her up, and another coworker took offense.
The OP then offered the point that it's only a fictitious character, so there was no reason for her to get bent out of shape.

I submit that the constant reconciling to one's self that what we are seeing in TV and movies, and in games is not real violence because it's happening to pretend people does eventually cause society to view violence as acceptable in certain situations.

[Andara Bledin]

I'm not doing a huge search for any studies tonight, but I will leave you with this:

Study shows how media in peaceful countries 'over report' violence

Turns out that the US has the most violent news coverage in the world.

If one wants to speak of desensitization, it would be best to start by taking a look at violent media that depicts real violence committed against real people as opposed to going after fantasy entertainment.

Unsurprisingly, I've run across some more studies that point to perceived economic disparity as the most reliable cause of violence.

And, of course, the various cases where the media just flat out makes up sensationalist stories to sell ad space.

^-.-^

[Mytical]

Not sure how to put this...hope I make some sense. Not always the best at conveying what I am wanting to say. I do not believe seeing violence, of any kind, leads a person to commit violence. Not real violence, video game violence, movie violence. A combination of all of them does not either.

Society does love to try to give people 'excuses' for their actions. So when violence is done it is always somebody or something else that caused it. While there are legitimate reasons for people being unable to make their own decisions, for the most part..it is bunk. If the person lived the absolute worse life ever, I might somewhat believe it. However, people normally have had worse, and not chosen to commit acts of violence. Just like there are people who grew up in the most crime infested place, and never committed a crime.

Violence may be on the rise (I don't honestly know if it is or not), but if it is..it is not because we are becoming too desensitized. It would be an entirely different fratch as to why I think this is happening..but the long and short of it is..because people have TOO many excuses, AND people do not actually want to parent. Because hey..it's always somebody or something else that is at fault.

[Ree]

I don't believe I have said that exposure to violence makes people go out and commit violent acts. I just feel that it has caused a more relaxed attitude toward violence, and in some cases, it is seen as a solution to a problem with little to no hesitation.

I was not referring specifically to violence in video games, although that is part of the over exposure.

Turns out that the US has the most violent news coverage in the world.

If one wants to speak of desensitization, it would be best to start by taking a look at violent media that depicts real violence committed against real people as opposed to going after fantasy entertainment.

I believe I was making that point all along.

People are seeing violence on the news daily, but it is coming from the same TV or computer screen where they have just seen "fantasy" violence against "fantasy" people. As a result, rather than be horrified by it, people just become very apathetic.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Just saying this; slapping someone accross the face used to be a way of snapping someone out of hysteria. So in a way, slapping Dakota would be a good idea, as she was obviously in hysterics and needed to shut the fuck up to ensure everyone's survival.

[Cat]

Just saying this; slapping someone accross the face used to be a way of snapping someone out of hysteria. So in a way, slapping Dakota would be a good idea, as she was obviously in hysterics and needed to shut the fuck up to ensure everyone's survival.

Is it bad of me that all I can think of was the scene in "Airplance" when everyone slapped the hysertical women? (no way would I justify that in real life)

[BlaqueKatt]

If that's not desensitizing to violence, then I don't know what is.

desensitize-to decrease the abnormal fear in (a person) of a situation or object, by exposing him to it either in reality or in his imagination.

don't really think shooting a zombie on a video game rather than throwing an object or yelling at a real-live person demonstrates that.

I quit watching the news years ago simply because the real-life violent images, as in stuff happening to real people, made me ill to watch, especially as the reporters have zero compassion for anyone.

I can watch an actor (via special effects which I studied/researched briefly) be ripped apart and eaten by zombies, no problem.

I can shoot zombies and human characters in a video game, no problems.

But show me any image from a REAL LIFE situation, if I'm lucky, I won't vomit.

Hearing someone talk about it is enough to make me queasy.

How exactly is that desensitized?

[Andara Bledin]

How exactly is that desensitized?

It isn't.

Exposure to fantasy violence only desensitizes a person to fantasy violence.

^-.-^

[Ree]

How exactly is that desensitized?

I was referring to the fact that you claim to be less aggressive in real life because you spend recreational time killing off imaginary people on a video screen.

In my opinion, pretending to be annihilating people as a way of preventing yourself from actually doing it is a desensitizing towards violence.

Like I said, though, that's my opinion.

You won't persuade me otherwise, and I won't convince you of my opinion either.

It's obvious you don't agree with me, and even seem a bit offended that I would offer that viewpoint. Just to be clear, my comments are not directed to be critical of you at all, nor of anyone who plays violent fantasy games.

[BlaqueKatt]

It's obvious you don't agree with me, and even seem a bit offended that I would offer that viewpoint.

frankly it is offensive to say someone's outlet to deal with stress desensitizes them.

Some people go for a walk.
Some people would write or paint a picture.
Some people would read a book.

Some people pray for strength from god.

Why is my way of dealing with stress somehow horrible, and make me less compassionate toward my fellow man, which is what is being implied by saying I'm desensitized to violence(which I most certainly am not)?

How offensive would it be to say, "prayer/church/religion makes people less compassionate, because rather than go visit their sick friend, or help a homeless person by buying them a meal-you pray for them-which does nothing, then you can just throw up your hands and say it was god's will when your friend dies or the homeless person starves to death."

Pretty offensive isn't it?

[Ree]

Your analogy doesn't work for me, because I feel that prayer gets answered, so, for me, that really isn't actually doing nothing.

Again, at no time have I said you are any less compassionate because you play a violent fantasy game to relieve stress, nor have I said that it makes you more aggressive or more inclined to be violent.
I merely stated my opinion that pretending to kill and maim as a release of stress seems desensitizing to violence.

All those other ways you mentioned for others to relieve stress seem rather more productive and positive to me.

I am a compassionate person, as I'm sure you are, but I really cannot see myself sitting in front of a screen pretending to maim and kill and blow shit up.

I do, however, watch TV shows about crime and violence. That's my pastime.
Mine is not any more acceptable than yours. I am still being exposed to violence, and being desensitized by it.
I find it interesting that everyone jumped to the assumption that I was condemning violent games.

I never said you were wrong for playing your games, nor have I condemned your games.

I only said that continued exposure to an environment of violence, whether through the media or in games, makes for a society that seems less shocked by violence when it occurs, and renders some people capable of wishing harm on a child because we know they are only pretending.