Engineers

[DrFaroohk]

Maybe I've got the wrong term, but I'm talking about people who design shit. The guy who decided the hard drive on a computer goes RIGHT THERE. The guy who put the oil filter on your car RIGHT THERE. The guy who built my mailbox and put this one bolt I needed to get out so I could fix it RIGHT THERE.

You all know what I mean? Any time I have to dismantle something I am awed by what appears to be the sheer stupidity of someone who decided to put a key element in the one place you can't get to unless you shatter the thing into a million pieces.

I hate those guys.

[BlaqueKatt]

Any time I have to dismantle something I am awed by what appears to be the sheer stupidity of someone who decided to put a key element in the one place you can't get to unless you shatter the thing into a million pieces.

actually it's to ensure you don't or are unable to fix it yourself and either bring it to them so they can charge huge fees or buy a new one. For a perfect example of this see "transverse mounted engine" on a v4 or v6 where you cannot physically change the sparkplugs on half the cylinders without removing the engine from the vehicle. But it wasn't done to make the most common at home maintenance impossible and costly...no it was done for "safety" and "comfort"....right.....

[DrFaroohk]

Yeah I Know and it's just plain silly sometimes. I was out working on my car this morning and saw that the oil filter is like right between the wheel and the frame, and the only way to actually change the oil is to completely remove that wheel first. /lame

[HYHYBT]

No, that's done because cars are front wheel drive... and as cramped as it is in there, I'd bet they don't have to pull the engine to change spark plugs. (Then again, spark plugs are already supposed to be good for 100,000 miles, so if they're further improved, changing them may become unnecessary until the engine is pretty much gone anyway.) Nothing to do with safety, that I know of, but *in a sense* it's comfort related: for a car of the same size, extra space in the engine compartment means less space in the passenger compartment.

Many of the aspects of modern cars that make them impossible to work on at home are also exactly what makes them reliable enough that, compared to older ones, they hardly need anything done anyway.

There are things which are deliberately designed to be worked on yourself, but I doubt a mailbox would fit into that category; how many professional mailbox installers are there anyway?

For many things, it's simply cheaper to make them if you assume they never have to be taken apart again, and they are either reliable enough or cheap enough that replacement makes more sense than repair anyway. Computer upgrades excepted

[Ginger Tea]

The guy who decided the hard drive on a computer goes RIGHT THERE.

Having seen the insides of numerous PC's, but not in a professional capacity for many many years, I've only encountered odd placements a few times, mostly on compact case's.
I've volume upgraded systems where the removal of HDD's to insert into drive cloners was needed and one badged brand had an easy removal that I wished more adopted, pop the front bezel off, loosen the custom head screws slightly and it comes right out screws and all (as if it had mini wheels) data and power leads long enough to leave dangling out, none of this cut to length crap.

[ExRetailDrone]

My old desktop - which was a compact case - had the stupidest setup to it. A number of years back it began having problems with overheating. I brought it in to be looked at and found out why. The only fan in the thing was in the power supply, which was all the way at the top of the case. Below it was the hard drive, and below that was the graphics card. It pretty much could not get enough air flow in there due to the compactness of it to actually keep anything cool that needed to be kept cool. I ended up getting a low profile graphics card that had a fan to provide a bit more cooling, but that still didn't even help that much. For the past few years, when we use it, we have to keep the side off of it or else it will overheat and shut down. Such a piece of shit I will never again get a compact case computer - so not worth the tiny amount of space saving.

[Ginger Tea]

Aye get a really big tower and a crap tonne of fans on the case, even if the mobo is tiny its more air to circulate, that or sink it in mineral oil and have a fishtank pc

[BlaqueKatt]

No, that's done because cars are front wheel drive... and as cramped as it is in there, I'd bet they don't have to pull the engine to change spark plugs.

I've seen a transverse mounted V6 where the spark plugs were up against the firewall-with about one inch of clearance-this was back in the 1980's

and try to pull spark plugs(or do anything for that matter), with this one-hint on this the sparkplugs would be against the firewall-anything goes wrong with this one, it's take it to the dealer to fix.

Then again, spark plugs are already supposed to be good for 100,000 miles,

the newer very high performance ones yes-check your owner's manual, standard(OEM)usually need to be replaced every 15,000-45,000 miles.

[protege]

No, that's done because cars are front wheel drive... and as cramped as it is in there, I'd bet they don't have to pull the engine to change spark plugs.

They won't. I'm sure they have some special tool to swap the plug out. Plus, since they're a dealer...they know how

Look at it this way, many compromises go into designing a product. Be it a car, or the TV in your family room. Some of it is because of changing regulations, or trying to keep the product's cost down.

For example, looking at the MG, I see some strange things done to it. Such as...the batteries (yes 2) are under the back seat. The factory did it, for weight distribution purposes. That's why the cars are known for their 'safe' handling. That is, unless you're doing something stupid, you won't be caught out by a sudden spin. Another strange (or downright annoying!) thing involves the oil filter system. Unlike many cars, MG stuck with the 'canister' style filter. This thing has a replaceable paper (or gauze) element that sits inside a metal can. Messy as hell, and yes, I know this from personal experience... Also messy, is the transmission's oil filler. It's messy...because you access it from *inside* the car==there's a rubber plug behind the radio console. Remove it, lift the dipstick out, to check the oil level. Why, oh why did the factory do this?

But, the ultimate fuck-up had to be what happened later...

1. The MGC. This was a six-cylinder variant. Not a bad idea, but bad in execution. These were made by modifying the MGB's suspension...and slotting in the 3.0 Austin straight-six. The idea was, to create a successor to the famous "Big Healey" (the Austin-Healey 3000) which had gone out of production. Unfortunately, the 'six' couldn't be placed back far enough in the engine bay to get the proper weight distribution. Oh, and the hood had to be fitted with huge bulges so the damn thing would shut! The "C" looked good on paper, but in reality...most drivers didn't like the handling. With all that weight up front, the cars were dangerous! Little wonder then, less than 9,000 "Cs" were ever built, and they're pretty rare now. Sadly, because now the handling issues have been sorted--uprated shocks, different tires, etc. mean they're a joy to drive.

2. The 1973-on MGB. These had some interesting things done by the factory for one reason or another. First item, was the 1970 Clean Air Act. That came into being that year, which meant all models had to be fitted with emissions controls. These controls did plenty to *strangle* performance! Second regulation...was that the ride height was too low. The factory responded by jacking the cars up...and while they were at it, fitted huge blocks of rubber to the bumpers so they'd pass the new crash test regs. Then about the same time...triple windshield wipers came standard. Something with the area of glass being swept, IIRC.

I understand why those things were done. By the 1970s, British Leyland (MG's parent company) was losing a crapload of cash, and couldn't afford a total redesign. They had to use whatever means necessary to stay afloat, or attempt to stave off bankrupcty and nationalization. Sound familiar?

What I'm trying to say is, that most cars are the product of compromise. With MG, everything they did had to be run past the accountants, the ad department, the various directors, etc. just so they could get their stamp on it. The goal being, to keep everyone happy.

Getting back to spark plugs, I'm sure they end up where they do...simply because it can't be helped. FWD cars, especially those with a V6 or V8, have a cramped engine compartment simply because of the (usually) transverse engine. Manufacturers try to put the engine back as far as they can for weight distribution, and to provide a sloping hood line. The cramped bay isn't nearly as pronounced on a car with an inline engine.