people who want to coddle criminals

[smileyeagle1021]

Okay, locally there is some debate about replacing our existing state prison. There are several good reasons to replace it, it is near capacity and located very close to population centers (it is in Draper Utah which when built was truly in the middle of nowhere, but now just one of the many endless suburbs between Salt Lake and Provo, and a fast growing one at that). There is a military depot out in the western desert that is scheduled for decommision in a few years that several lawmakers are considering using to build a new prison, it is close enough to the city to be able to efficiently get prisoners to and from court and any medical needs, yet far enough away that there is little danger to the surrounding community (it's in the middle of what is now a restricted area.)
Now, here is what pisses me off, the people who are saying yes we need a new prison because they old one is so uncomfortable for prisoners.
WTF
Of course the prison isn't 'comfortable' that is why it is called punishment.
If you don't want to stay in a cell that is heated to your preference rather than the guard's, and eat the food that you prefer rather than the cook's, and watch TV shows you want rather than just what is on in the common room, here's a thought, and I quote Jim Carrey, "STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE!"

[Bronzebow]

Prison is supposed to be meant for rehabilitation, not a place where you're crammed like sardines where the guy who toked up once in his life and the guy who couldn't pay his speeding ticket have to bunk with two murderers and a rapist. There's a big difference between uncomfortable living and the kinds of conditions jails are seeing across the country.

It's the cost of our ridiculously high incarceration rate and militarization of police forces as a country. When you jail more people than China...something is scarily off. If we as a society are going to jail these many people for this big spread of laws, and even design our laws so that any given person commits three felonies on average a day, then we as a society are going to have to have the burden of more jail space on our shoulders.

You may call it "coddling," but I call it "reasonable, legal, and healthy accommodations," especially for a vast swath of people who don't deserve to be in there in the first place. I just don't get why so many people won't be happy until we're practically raking prisoners over coals. Adequate living space is damn well the very least we should do, else we turn into the very animals we claim to put behind these bars in the first place. Talk about becoming that which you hate.

[blas87]

You can ask our former governor how well it works to early release/plea bargain even violent criminals just to keep prison population down. Probation/parole is not the answer to everything, and I'd rather have crowded prisons than violent criminals walking free, waiting for their next victim to kidnap/rape/murder.

Can't do the time, don't do the crime. It is supposed to be punishment. Learn it and accept it.

[Bronzebow]

You can ask our former governor how well it works to early release/plea bargain even violent criminals just to keep prison population down. Probation/parole is not the answer to everything, and I'd rather have crowded prisons than violent criminals walking free, waiting for their next victim to kidnap/rape/murder.

Can't do the time, don't do the crime. It is supposed to be punishment. Learn it and accept it.

It's because of our overcrowded prisons and overreaching laws in the first place that cause us to have to release these violent prisoners early. It is a problem of our own making. Next time a politician is campaigning on a platform of being "tougher on crime," he's just looking to throw more nonviolent, victimless 'criminals' in jail. Keep that in mind at the ballot box.

BTW, prison as a punishment and revenge is many times less effective than prison as rehabilitation and deterrent. The former leaves you abused, on the street, penniless, and practically sets you up to go back to jail. The latter sets you back up to be a productive member of society. Which sounds better in the long run?

[blas87]

It's our own doing, huh?

No, I believe people breaking the law put themselves in jail/prison. Sure, it sucks that the systems aren't divided well enough to keep lower risk inmates from higher risk ones, that is where reform is needed. Not to make them more comfortable (it's prison, not a Hilton), but to keep them with their equals, so that someone in prison for check fraud isn't with a violent multiple offense sex offender.

[telecom_goddess]

Jail/prison is not supposed to be rehab it's supposed to be punishment....I admit some people are put in jail for stupid ass things......it should be reserved for real Law breakers....but the ones that are doing serious crimes need to get over it...it's not supposed to be comfortable damn it.

[Bronzebow]

It's our own doing, huh?

Read my post and what I'm saying, please.

We are jailing more people in this country than China. Our prisons are overpopulated with the vast swaths of people we are throwing in there.

When we as a country jail these many people, to the point where local authorities try to kick people out of jail to make room for the incoming wave of people who both do and do not deserve to be in there, then yes, it is our own doing. We elected those guys in to be "tough on crime," and now we have this problem that we created for ourselves.

I'm not going to use hyperbole to describe prison conditions, using terms between Hilton and a foxhole. I think they need to be adequate to allow a given inmate a healthy and reasonable place to spend their time. If we can't give them that, then we need to fix it. It's the right thing to do.

Jail/prison is not supposed to be rehab it's supposed to be punishment

"Supposed" to is an odd term to use here. We use prison in this country as punishment and revenge, but it's not the ideal solution. We only hurt ourselves by using it as such.

[blas87]

There's a warden in Arizona who uses tents as cells and makes male inmates wear pink underoos. In my opinion, his being a hardass is better than being a mollycoddler. People don't want to return once they are set free.

[AdminAssistant]

Prison actually is supposed to be for punishment. There's a place where people can go for rehabilitation. They're called rehabs. Frankly, I'd rather see the minor drug and DUI/DWI offenders going to rehab instead of prison.

[blas87]

I'll agree with you on most of that, Admin, but multi offending drunks I'd rather see in prison, if they've hurt someone else other than just themselves.

Bf has a friend who drove drunk and killed his best friend when their car rolled and caught fire, the friend was passed out and pinned so bad that he burned to death. The other guy got out, spent 3 years in prison (good behavior) so he has 2 of parole to complete, isn't supposed to be in bars and yet there he was kicking and screaming at a wedding reception/bar about not being allowed to go to bars and drink and having to check in with his parole officer every Monday and to take random breath alhyzers. He needed to stay in there a few more years, I think.

[Bronzebow]

There's a warden in Arizona who uses tents as cells and makes male inmates wear pink underoos. In my opinion, his being a hardass is better than being a mollycoddler. People don't want to return once they are set free.

Yeah. He also beats his prisoners, feeds pre-trial defendants rotten food, forced a mother to give birth in the hospital in handcuffs because she couldn't afford to pay a speeding ticket (doctor said to take the cuffs off, the policemen there scoffed at him and said no), and his police force violates the civil rights of his county on a regular basis. There are pages and pages of violations he and his force have committed.

Yet people sing his praises...

He and the county DA regularly abuse judges who dare rule against them. They both regularly abuse and harass reporters who dare say anything negative about either. Don't even get me started on the freaking tank that this guy got for his SWAT team. A war machine meant to end massive amounts of human life...for a county sheriff.

It honestly scares me when anyone speaks well of him. How can you look at this guy and think that anything he does deserves praise?

[blas87]

Are these reals facts, or liberal sensations you've read online or watched on TV?

I saw him and his facilities on Lock Down on MSNBC and everything appeared legitimate to me.

[Bronzebow]

Prison actually is supposed to be for punishment. There's a place where people can go for rehabilitation. They're called rehabs. Frankly, I'd rather see the minor drug and DUI/DWI offenders going to rehab instead of prison.

You're confusing the goal of prison with organizations like AA. The goal of prison, ideally, is to curb negative behavior and refocus it into a productive energy that can be reintegrated back into society. This, of course, only once said violator's debt to society is repaid.

What we have now is only the former part of this, with efforts for the latter scoffed at as "babying vile rapists."

[Bronzebow]

Are these reals facts, or liberal sensations you've read online or watched on TV?

I saw him and his facilities on Lock Down on MSNBC and everything appeared legitimate to me.

Are you really just learning about all of this of this for the first time?

First of all, I'm not a liberal. I'm a small L libertarian.

Secondly, the link I gave you has all of its sources cited. A google search will give you this kind of information as well. You can see for yourself.


Edit:

Link link link(A machine gun?!) link link

And link to get you started. Follow all the history for the full story.

[blas87]

I don't believe everyone's sources.

There are websites right now declaring that Obama and his wife haven't been invited to the Royal Wedding because of how rude Michelle is, and yet, there's another cite declaring the contrary. I'm sure you can find sites showing this warden is innocent and abides by the law.

If this were true, it'd be investigated and he'd be in his own world of trouble for torturing.