global climate change, and you*

[BlaqueKatt]

* the generic you

You wanna get serious about pollution? I mean, *really* serious about pollution? Go over to India and China where the factories are belching out tons and tons of unfiltered smog.

But I guess that's hard.

Yes because the plane trip will magically not impact anything. And I'm sure the 1.34 billion people in china that produce HALF the CO2 emissions, will listen to someone who comes from a country that has 1/4 the population of theirs and produces TWICE as much CO2 as they do.
(source) Yes with one fourth of the population of china we produce twice as much CO2. Ever hear the phrase, "And why behold the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but consider not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how will thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

In other words before we can tell China and India to cut down on their emissions, we kinda have to cut down ours first. We get mad that they refused to sign the KYOTO treaty, I don't think we can cast judgment until we get our CO2 down to their levels. My carbon footprint is 14 tons of CO2 per year, most of it(85.7%) is home energy, living in an apartment I can't do much about that(heat/water heat/etc.-I control what I can). The average American's is 27 tons of CO2 with almost half of that being car travel.

as far as "it's cold" how long do you run your car to "warm it up" so you have heat? by the time I'm maybe a block from home on a day where the ambient temp is 0 and the windchill is -5, I'm comfortably warm, by the time I'm a mile in I have to unzip my coat because I'M SWEATING. Physical exertion creates heat, a lot of heat. And have I ever mentioned that due to daily physical activity my migraines, that I used to get 2x a month have decreased to the point that I haven't actually had one in 7 months! The last one I had was in July of last year.

BlaqueKatt, I'll try to remember all that when I get home next year and it's snowing out and I need to go get food at the supermarket. I'll walk the two miles instead of driving. Then after, I get all the food for my parents, my sister, and I, I'll have someone watch some of the bags while I make the trip home back and forth to get everything.

Closest grocery store to me is 4 miles(there is one closer but it's more expensive, tiny, and has no produce section at all, it's mainly frozen foods as I live close to campus), which from figuring it takes you 3-4 minutes to get to the store by car, it's likely the same distance or shorter. Incidentally the store I shop at is also the closest one to the 20 person co-op two blocks away. What's the point? Well I manage to get groceries for two people for two weeks from that store on my bike, with panniers, even in the winter, the co-op has 4 people to get groceries for 20 people, not 4 but 20, for a month, from the same store, also on bikes, they have trailers, they seem to manage, I don't see 20 people not eating all winter.

You're making it seem like no one could ever manage to do anything without a car.


What gets me is everyone makes excuses why they can't do something(such as replace some car trips with biking or walking, or heck even ride a motorcycle or scooter in the summer rather than a car-trying to convince the hubs to get a motorcycle for the summer), without ever even trying, then accuse others of being "an environmentalist snob who looks down on people who take advantage of modern conveniences."

And yet fail to see the irony in making that statement.

a convenience is not a necessity, yet people make excuses to turn it into one.

And that's part of the problem, saving the planet IS inconvenient, making excuses to not do it is really easy, involves zero effort. But with a small effort by everyone, it adds up and avoids the HUGE inconvenience of say having a planet that won't support life. But I guess changing a few small things here and there with minimal effort is hard, guess we should all just give up now.

if anyone's interested carbon footprint calculator I used

also calculated to include my husband, who drives and eats more meat than I do-household carbon footprint is 33 tons per year, average American 2 person household is 53.

We've already agreed the first things we're doing when we get a house is , installing solar panels, a tankless waterheater, a garden, and somewhere for me to compost for the garden.

[AdminAssistant]

as far as "it's cold" how long do you run your car to "warm it up" so you have heat?

I don't. The only time I let my car idle is when I'm trying to scrape ice off the windshield and back glass. Otherwise, I just drive. Unless you need to do so because of an engine issue, letting the car "warm up" is a waste of gas.

I don't enjoy walking around in cold weather. It stings my eyes, chaps my face, my sinuses and chest hurts from breathing in cold air. Then, walk inside, and bring on the sweat and the drippy nose. I have enough of that on campus, TYVM. Then there's the summer. Here, we experience highs near 100F for 3-4 weeks. Extreme physical exertion in those temperatures can lead to heatstroke.

You do realize that not everyone lives in a public transit friendly environment, right? Or a place where it is safe or possible to ride bikes all year round? I grew up 5 miles from the nearest town. There a car is a necessity. Ah, you say, but you can get a motorcycle!! Ride around on a two-wheeled death machine!! Yes, they're usually perfectly safe, but it's understandable that most people (self included) would rather be inside riding on four wheels.

And please don't tell me that you're "saving the planet." To quote George Carlin, "The planet is fine, the people are fucked." You're attempting to have a positive impact on your living conditions.

I love my car. I love driving. I can't, for the life of me, understand why anyone wouldn't at least learn how to drive and get a license, even if they don't own a car.

Also, one last thing. Personally, I need to get to where I'm going as quickly as possible. I don't have time to do all the things I need to do for my classes plus teaching, as well as keeping up a household, cooking meals, spending time with my Fiance* as it is. Add on spending 45 minutes to walk to campus (a 5-10 minute drive), plus trying to get to the grocery store, the library, wherever else I need to go. The town is too hilly for a bike to be reliable transportation. The campus bus doesn't have a stop near my house. My town is considered a haven for panhandlers, loons, and all degrees of hipsters, so I wouldn't feel safe riding the city bus.

So, I'll just drive. It is a convenience, and one that I'll take full advantage of so that my life will be just a bit easier.

*Who has to drive 45 minutes to get to his job. I guess he should quit and go on unemployment. Hey, at least then he's not killing the planet, right??

[Greenday]

You do realize that not everyone lives in a public transit friendly environment, right?

*Who has to drive 45 minutes to get to his job. I guess he should quit and go on unemployment. Hey, at least then he's not killing the planet, right??

Wtf is public transit?

Unemployment...make the Earth a little less inhabitable in a really long time...tough choice.

[RavenStarr]

I can't, for the life of me, understand why anyone wouldn't at least learn how to drive and get a license, even if they don't own a car.

But lets remember that some people aren't able to drive due to medical reasons.

Anyway The nearest grocery store is 14 miles from where I live. Now I don't think walking would really be an option especially in freezing cold and rain. There is a guy that comes into the store and he bikes everywhere. He told me he sold his car and hasn't had a vehicle since. But heres the thing he lives in town and it takes him less than 5 minutes ti ride his bike to the store.

Now my question is this. Would you expect me to walk or ride my bike for a 28 mile round trip grocery run? See giving up the car isn't for everyone.

[Andara Bledin]

Yes with one fourth of the population of china we produce twice as much CO2.

Why, yes, industry will produce more pollution than farming. What an amazing discovery. 9.9

In other words before we can tell China and India to cut down on their emissions, we kinda have to cut down ours first.

Actually, from what I understand (and I admit that my understanding is spotty), less-developed nations are going to be held to less-strict emissions and pollution limits than more-developed nations to prevent the leading nations from stifling the development of trailing nations.

also calculated to include my husband, who drives and eats more meat than I do-household carbon footprint is 33 tons per year, average American 2 person household is 53.

I just checked my household. It's not accurate, as we actually use less than the calculator allows for in some areas (food waste, for example, is almost nil), our household produces 15 tons. According to that calculator. Somehow, I think we're doing more than our part already, but when we get an actual house (several years down the road), we'll be putting in solar panels immediately.

And please don't tell me that you're "saving the planet." To quote George Carlin, "The planet is fine, the people are fucked." You're attempting to have a positive impact on your living conditions.

This. It's not about the planet, but getting to a point of sustainable living conditions for the future.

You (generic) want to help make that happen? Then start lobbying for alternative fuel solutions that are already viable, and have been for decades.

^-.-^

[LexiaFira]

hmm.
throwing my two scents in from what little i do know.
From what little I could do as the house me and my family reside in is a bit old and to update it or bring it to an eco friendly state would cost more than its worth HOWEVER i have replaced florescent lightbulbs with the CFL spiral ones on the most frequently used lamps in the house. Slowly trying to convert them all as it is costly. However the cost outweighs having to replace them every few years instead of every few months. The cost of replacing flouresent bulbs can run up to about the cost of one CFL bulb fairly quickly. no i didn't do the math, please feel free to correct me.
The bathroom uses the old rod lightbulbs with mercury in them and that is where we fail as we cannot afford to replace the fixtures*
Working on sealing the cracks outside and the door jams or open areas inside to keep heat and cooling costs down. or in most cases wear a sweater or open the windows.
the kitchen lights are only on at night as most of the time there is enough sunlight coming from the windows that its fairly well lit all day.
I don't drive, can't legally drive and haven't driven in about five years so i know my auto skills are lacking by now.

HOWEVER. This is just what I myself can do as not everyone can cut down costs due to where they live, climate, distance, and house type and condition its in. Our house is several generations old and honestly should probably be demolished. (long history there)
It does take effort to become energy efficient not just for us but for our planet. Yet as human nature why knock what already works and from what I see alot of people here are already comfortable with what they have and don't want to change until its too late.
I remember when in the late 80's someone did an hour long show in an attempt to bring awareness and the actors or actor from the ghost buster movies came on and dubbed himself and his group "dust busters" and started stating facts.
if we had started taking action then maybe it would be better now.
Again, human nature why change it if it already works?
I don't know the whole our gas/petroleum fuel is a limited resource and when its gone its gone? Doesn't help the electric cars and hybrids are high priced either.

from a very cynical and hateful standpoint we could change, but its way too late now. I support changes for the better but at this point is there enough time for it to take effect and do any real good or have we already torn up our earth enough doing changes now would be like slapping a bandaid on a massive gash?

Also recycling takes a bit more energy to reuse items. it is somewhat worth it to reduce the garbage, but what to do with the existing garbage heaps?




*We can replace the fixtures but its been found that the house is so old just remodeling the bathroom would result in having to tear down walls and much much more as I already know the extent of the damage and its...for me too much to mention here.

[protege]

I've said it before in other threads... if I could take public transit to work, I'd *gladly* leave the car at home. Unfortunately, living out in the 'burbs, means my options are limited. Within the past couple of years, several bus routes have been discontinued because of the transit authority's cashflow problems. Even if they hadn't discontinued the routes, it would still be a pain in the ass to get to work. I'd have to take one bus downtown, and then another to the area I work in. If either of those is running late, I'm fucked.

Riding a bike isn't an option either. It's about a half-hour drive, 45 minutes at the most. Some of the areas I have to go through...aren't really places you want to be at night. Hell, I get nervous even *driving* through those areas!

Also, most of the groceries I tend to buy are impossible to carry on a bike. 40-pound bucket of kitty litter, or 20-pound bag of cat food? What about how I tend to buy, say two weeks or so of groceries? I really doubt all of that would fit on someone's bike.

For some of us, giving up the car isn't an option. It's more convenient to have one--I can get more done, in more time, with the car...than I could with public transit.

[Plaidman]

Wtf is public transit?

o_O I hope there is more to this that I'm not seeing. I didn't think you were that dumb not to know what it is...

Its city run buses/trains etc. You know, take the bus to place A instead of your car. Pay a buck and there ya go.

[BlaqueKatt]

Now my question is this. Would you expect me to walk or ride my bike for a 28 mile round trip grocery run? See giving up the car isn't for everyone.

where did I say "give up your car"?

I said

replace some car trips with biking or walking, or heck even ride a motorcycle or scooter in the summer rather than a car

Why, yes, industry will produce more pollution than farming.

except that 314 million metric tons of the US CO2 emissions are from cars NOT "industry"-the US is responsible for 45% of the worlds total of vehicle related CO2 emissions-we certainly don't have 45% of the worlds population or cars.
though india has 12 cars per 1000 people we have 752 cars per 1000 people.....

this report from the dept of energy breaks down CO2 emissions by end use sector(table 6)
The transportation sector has led all U.S. end-use sectors in emissions of carbon dioxide since 1999-it has higher rates that industry-so the "industry" excuse is Pure BS-higher than anything other than electricty

What about how I tend to buy, say two weeks or so of groceries? I really doubt all of that would fit on someone's bike.

I'll repost this since you seem to have missed it.

Well I manage to get groceries for two people for two weeks from that store on my bike, with panniers, even in the winter, the co-op has 4 people to get groceries for 20 people, not 4 but 20, for a month, from the same store, also on bikes, they have trailers

cat food and kitty litter my husband picks up on his way home from work, the pet store is less than a block away from his job, we don't make separate trips for it. My husband has a car, he drives to work, in the summer he bikes more. The car is for his work commute only, anything else we normally walk or bike, maybe once a month we'll drive to the mall to pick up books but normally we take the bus for that trip.

What I'm finding most amusing is I have NEVER said "give up your car totally and use a bike", but for some reason those words keep getting shoved in my mouth.

not sure how that comes from:

what I have said is combine trips, as in, don't go to work, drive past the store on your way home and make an extra(unnecessary) trip to the store after you get home. If you need milk and there's a convenience store less than a mile away, do you really need to drive there, or could you walk or bike? Little things add up, but the impression I'm getting is "well we're screwed already, why bother trying to fix anything, it doesn't matter". We as a people have given up and conceded defeat without even bothering to try....because it may inconvenience us temporarily.

[Greenday]

o_O I hope there is more to this that I'm not seeing. I didn't think you were that dumb not to know what it is...

Its city run buses/trains etc. You know, take the bus to place A instead of your car. Pay a buck and there ya go.

Yea, I know what it is, we just don't have it unless you are travelling really far. If you want it say for a job or something that is local, you are screwed.

[blas87]

It's not good to just start your car and go, especially when it's below freezing (or, especially this time of year, below 0). The engine needs to properly warm up for at least a few minutes before you leave.

I use my remote start while I gather up my purse and put on my coat and shoes and pack my lunch, it runs for about 5 minutes before I leave.

[Boozy]

It's not good to just start your car and go, especially when it's below freezing (or, especially this time of year, below 0). The engine needs to properly warm up for at least a few minutes before you leave.

Nah, that's a myth. There's no advantage to the engine to warm it up at an idle. You can just as safely warm it up while driving, as long as you take it easy.

[blas87]

My car shifts a lot smoother if it's given a few extra minutes. When I try to just start and go, I notice the shifting is a little rough when going down the road. I baby my car and never romp on the gas, so it isn't being hard on it.

The average person where I live.....yes, romp on the gas is probably the right term.

[Mikkel]

Also, most of the groceries I tend to buy are impossible to carry on a bike. 40-pound bucket of kitty litter, or 20-pound bag of cat food? What about how I tend to buy, say two weeks or so of groceries? I really doubt all of that would fit on someone's bike.

Technology can help with a lot of problems .

[Lace Neil Singer]

And please don't tell me that you're "saving the planet." To quote George Carlin, "The planet is fine, the people are fucked." You're attempting to have a positive impact on your living conditions.

TRUTH. When people piously talk about saving the planet, what they really mean is saving the human race. Yes, just humans. The majority of wildlife will happily live on even after the human race destroys itself. Proof of this can be seen in the vast population of wildlife living in the dead zone around Chernobyl. True, people can't live there without risk of death from radiation poisoning giving them cancer and other diseases, but the animals living there are doing so quite happily. So, in the event of the human race being wiped out, life will go on. It won't miss us.

Now, having gotten the nihilistic part out of the way, yes I do have a motorbike. I do take public transport whenever needed. However, there are two things that make this happen. One, I can't afford to run a car. Two, there are trains and buses where I am. Not everywhere has good public transport; in fact, there are villages and towns in my neck of the woods that have crap public transport, where you have to take at least two buses or a bus and train journey to get anywhere. Also, it's a lot cheaper to run your own vehicle rather than rely on public transport, and a hell of a lot more reliable.