You would think you could get it right

[Eisa]

I'm not entirely sure where this should go, so I'm putting it in things I hate.

I go to the LGBT group at my school and last week I discovered that there is one girl [who I felt a bit frosty about anyway--this doesn't help] is basically a total douche. And actually, has almost singlehandedly made it so that transgendered people don't ever want to come to our meetings.

Why? She REFUSES to call them by their preferred pronouns. Apparently to her, if you were born one gender, you ARE that gender, no matter what. Even if you have transitioned, had hormones, had surgery, lived as the gender you are, changed your name, the works...to her, you are that biological sex you were born as, and she will NOT ever refer to you as the proper gender.

Like my friend is a trans-man. This girl will only refer to my friend as "her," which sends him into a blind, towering rage...as it should, really. I can't imagine how bloody frustrating it must be for someone to be such a blind, willful idiot.

AND this girl has dated FOUR trans-men. But said "they're all just girls anyway." Gee, I can see why you aren't dating them anymore. Well, besides the whole cheating on them shtick. And getting bored of them. And how are you a lesbian again?

Oh yeah, she's a lesbian. I know anyone can be a phobic douche, but you'd think after everything, she would know better. Especially as in our LGBT group, we work VERY hard on talking about diversity and trying to get rid of transphobia, as it's effing ridiculous. They aren't pod people FFS. And she's also one of those very proudly declaimed "angry lesbians" where she actually introduces herself as "Hi I'm *name* and I'M A LESBIAN, so if you have a problem with that, TOO BAD." ....Ok. Really, that's how you choose to define yourself to everyone? Why?

But yeah. She pisses me off. She pisses the whole trans community here off. She spreads rumors about trans people and the people who call her out on this shit, too. Yeah, that's lovely.

Oh well--at least I don't have to spend TOO much time around her. Thank Gawd.

[Ladeeda]

Dude, that's just wrong. If someone identifies as a gender they were not born with the matching plumbing for, even pre-op, no hormone pills, etc, they should still be addressed correctly. They've already got enough problems without someone being a dick in a place that's meant to provide support and allies.

[Andara Bledin]

Why is it that dumb bitch is still part of the group when she's unwilling to be civil to other members of the group?

And she's not phobic - I suspect she's ashamed that she's actually bi and is using this whole crap to justify that she's not really, she's actually a lesbian because they're not "real" women.

Does she pull the same thing in lesbian relationships? Does she even have actual lesbian relationships? I've known more than a few people who chose their orientation because it was trendy, and not really with any consideration for what they actually liked.

^-.-^

[Eisa]

I honestly don't know. The trans-friend I mentioned has a gf, who got quite upset with her...so not only did this bitch start spreading rumors about her, she tried telling people that they could not be friends with gf. She was firmly put in her place by at least some people, at least.

She's in a lesbian relationship now...with a pregnant girl. It seems there needs to be something weird/interesting/different about her partners. And there's the whole she cheats on them, too...which, if she does to this girl, I think a lot of people will want to kill her, because that is fucked up to do to anyone, but especially someone who's pregnant...needs to be kept calm. She also has a kid herself from a...relationship? Marriage? I dunno.

I still can't believe she's been in relationships with FOUR trans-men and pulled that shit, that they were "still girls." Um, no. If they identify as men, they are men. Even if they haven't transitioned yet, like Ladeeda said.

The stupid part is...if she's not a "real" lesbian...no one would CARE what orientation she was. Bi, straight, lesbian, pan, asexual, only-likes-transgendered people, I mean, whatever. If she was actually being responsible about it, I do not care. She's just so...stupidly militant over waving the gay flag and going I'm a LESBIAN, that it's just like...dude, calm down. I'm bi. I don't shout it from the rooftops and incorporate it in 99.9999% of my FB statuses.

OH--something else that pissed me off about her, that I just realized. About a month ago, a boy who went to our LGBT group committed suicide. It was horrible. Most everyone who knew him/went to the group posted something on FB about it. Even if it wasn't directly on their wall, they 'shared in grief' if that made sense.

But not her. Instead, she kept posting tons of stuff about how fabulous her life was and how great she was doing, and how amazing everything and anything was.

That just seemed...really cold and bitchy to me. I mean, I don't think anyone needs to put on sackcloth and ashes when it comes to something like that. I didn't even know him all that well, but I still posted an RIP and it truly saddened me. But apparently, it didn't affect her at all, and I do not understand that. Not when it's someone you know, have talked to, have interacted with, and you find out they were dealing with that much pain.

[Andara Bledin]

She's a major narcissist; it all has to be about her.

^-.-^

[HYHYBT]

I could just about sympathize about the pronoun/name thing, if that were all of it and she weren't so plainly a [insert string of insulting terms here] to begin with. At least, I have trouble with that with people who either 1) I knew before; 2) they look opposite to their preferred terms; or 3) it's a complete stranger and I cannot tell what they're trying to be. It requires a lot more *thought* in an area where more usually none at all is needed, and it's very easy, at least for me, to do wrong without intending to, without meaning any harm, and quite possibly without even realizing I've done it. *Especially* #1.

Which isn't a defense of this person obviously doing it intentionally; just a general public apology for my own missteps in the area, with the hope that people don't find genuine error, misspeaking, and plain habit *too* offensive.

[Greenday]

I'm really not sure how you can think she's bisexual if she really thinks the only thing that matters to gender is how you look on the outside. She obviously considers gender a physical thing with no mental component. As such, dating a transgendered person who feels they are really a guy would still be hooking up with a chick.

I've never had to deal with a transgendered person on a daily basis so I don't have much experience on having to call a woman a guy when talking to them or vice versa. But I can see how that'd be extremely awkward.

[Andara Bledin]

I've never had to deal with a transgendered person on a daily basis so I don't have much experience on having to call a woman a guy when talking to them or vice versa. But I can see how that'd be extremely awkward.

I know two post-op who are now women. Honestly, it's not even remotely difficult to just think of them as women and use the appropriate pronouns as I would for any other female I happen to know.

As for those who are one gender but prefer to self-identify as the other, I sincerely doubt it would be much more difficult than remembering their preferred nicknames and other modes of address.

^-.-^

[Greenday]

Yes, but let's say a woman has a guy's name and thinks he's a male. It's still going to be tough to looking into the eyes of someone with a female body and call them a he. I don't know, as I said, I've never had to deal with it so it's a foreign idea to me. I understand it, but just having never dealt with it, it seems like it would be weird.

[Eisa]

You get used to it pretty fast. I know someone who's MTF transgender and hasn't transitioned yet, but goes by a feminine name...and it was a little awkward at first, but now it's just like...oh. Yeah, you're a girl, you just don't "look the part so much" just yet.

[Greenday]

Okay, I'll have to take your word for it. I'm sure you do get used to it, just seems like it'd be weird at first.

[Mytical]

While I personally I think people get to caught up on labels, it is their right to be called by any gender they wish. My gender is somewhat fluid from time to time, but it doesn't bother me personally if somebody calls me a he or a she. However, I believe that if you want to be identified as something..then that is fine with me. You insist you are a Bovine, I'll call you a Bovine. Believe you are from Mars? I will call you a Martian. If you think you were born the wrong gender, then you absolutely have the right to be called by your correct gender.

[Boozy]

Okay, I'll have to take your word for it. I'm sure you do get used to it, just seems like it'd be weird at first.

Yes, you have to think about it very consciously at first.

One of my customers is a trans-woman. I'd say "pre-operative", but I don't believe she has plans to go that route. She's been my customer for five years, and I haven't seen any indications that she's even bothering with hormone therapy.

Anyway, there's a definite pause in my speech before I use a pronoun like "she" or "her" when I'm referring to her, because I still have to consciously remind myself that she is a woman. I think she notices, and I don't think she minds. I think she just appreciates my effort.

[Ghel]

I've only ever met one trans person, that I know of. She was a customer of the bank, and I only ever interacted with her as a teller. It was pretty obvious that she was born male, but was on hormone therapy. I was a bit uncomfortable about pronouns, so I just used her name. The name on the account, that is. One of my coworkers knew her as a child and insisted on using her birth name, Frank.

I kind of felt sorry for her, since there's practically nothing in the way of support groups for people with "alternative" sexual orientations in the area. I keep speaking of her in the past tense because she passed away a few years ago. I suspect that she took her own life, but the obituary simply said that she died at home.

[Ginger Tea]

From what I read,I think Greenday was refering to men or women born one sex, but not opting for surgery or any other way of saying "I identify with the other sex"
eg a woman wearing jeans and a shirt with big breasts with a girly voice insisting on being called Dave.

The whole pre/post op aspect, with surgery as it is now, you can be indistinguishable from the genuine article without a closer inspection (or an Austrailian hand shake for the pre), so I doubt I would call her Sir just cos of what's between her legs.

What annoys me most is Bre from TransAmerica, they hired an atractive woman to play the part of a MTF and uglied her up, yet a safe search off google image search reveals men that totally look like women, so why make her look like a car wreck?
Maybe you can only go for the more realistic operations if you have the cash, hence why that porn niche is active and Bre's character wasn't affluent.