people that don't understand correlation =/= causation

[BlaqueKatt]

ok due to the "stripping teacher's of collective bargaining rights" protests that are still going on(here's the stuff that has gotten almost zero attention due to it-if anyone still cares-and that is why I'm pissed). I'm going to use that for my argument, due to being fresh in my mind.

I keep hearing the following argument:

The five states that have outlawed collective bargaining for educators are ranked at the BOTTOM in ACT scores, with four of the five, South Carolina ranking 50th, North Carolina 49th, Georgia 48th and Texas 47th and Virginia doing a bit better, ranking 44th in the nation.

yup no denying that, however could it be that collective barganing is not the problem? In otherwords, the data may correlate, but it's not the root cause.

4 of those five states teach "intelligent design" as science.
Also those states have a higher poverty level than average.
south carolina poverty level-17.1%
north carolina-16.2%
Georgia-16.6%
Texas-17.1%
Virginia-10.6%

arguing any of these is a logical fallacy-the cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy


to use another example:
there are more African-Americans in prisons(and on death row) than there are Latinos, or Caucasians-does that mean African-Americans are more prone to criminal activity? Nope it's due to both poverty and the ability to hire a good lawyer.

Another example to show just how ludicrous confusing the two actually is can be found here

the fact that there is a wiki article on it tells me many many people don't grasp this concept....

[Eisa]

Yep, I get that pounded into my head all the time [I'm a psychology major] that correlation does NOT imply causation. It just means two things are correlated. One thing could be causing the other, something else could be causing both, or it could just be completely random and unrelated.

[lordlundar]

Look up the video game violence debate. It's a clear example of just how few people understand that concept.

[Andara Bledin]

Come on, you can't point out that causation is not correlation without bringing up ice cream and murder, can you?

A lovely description of what causality really is that explains the dangers of ice cream

^-.-^

[DrFaroohk]

I hear this one a lot about how women look. Like...


MTV shows thin, scantily clad women with big boobs.

Many men like thin, scantily clad women with big boobs.

Therefore, men like these women because they are shown on MTV.

---

It's like no one has ever considered "Hey, maybe these magzines and tv shows have women that look like this because that's what many men want to see."

[lordlundar]

Come on, you can't point out that causation is not correlation without bringing up ice cream and murder, can you?

A lovely description of what causality really is that explains the dangers of ice cream

^-.-^

Considering that as of late, most "news"media seem to love jumping on the "violent video games are the cause of all the shooting incidents in the world" (and yes, the one of the church in Amish country being shot up by a 40 year old was attributed to violent video games by at least one network), it seems to be just a touch more obvious of the insanity of it.

[smileyeagle1021]

Oh, I get the whole correlation and causation thing a lot.
"Gays are more likely to abuse drugs, therefor being gay causes drug abuse"
... umm, people who are disenfranchised are more likely to abuse drugs, guess what causes people to be disenfranchised? Well one way is to be discriminated against for being gay.
"Gays tend to die younger, therefor being gay shortens lifespan"
... umm, so does having a medical profession that can legally turn you away for treatment because the doctor doesn't like your lifestyle.
the list goes on.

eta- one that used to bug me a lot, speaking of causation versus correlation.
I had a friend who would always say he was a social activist because he is Catholic, he wanted to help people because he is Catholic, etc.
I told him, no, you want to help people because you are a good person, that is something independent of your faith... being a good person may have also led you to become a Catholic, but that doesn't change that when it comes down to it, being a good person has had more influence than being Catholic.