oh there's a headache coming my way.

[gremcint]

so I just got a letter from visa, with my new credit card.

This is odd because mine doesn't expire until next year.

Then I discover the reason is they are now sending me a chip card, this is good, the chip cards are more secure and more and more places are taking them.


Here's the bad, first off my expiry date has only been moved one month ahead for some reason (new card should be new expiry date). This isn't a big deal but what follows may lead to me leaving visa altogether.

This card now comes equipped with Visa Paywave technology.

here are my problems:
1. it continuously says that all small dollar purchases can use this if available, never once telling me what they consider s small dollar purchase.
2. on their website it says 50 and under.
3. so any purchase under 50 dollars does not require a pin or a signature at all... THEN WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT OF THE CHIP AT ALL. do you have any idea how easy it would be to clean someone out if I could make any purchase up to 50 without any security at all.
4. where I work, paypass (the mastercard version) will actually just shut down the till and make it crash so I'll be afraid to use this at stores for fear of doing the same thing.
5. it is so easy to rip off my credit card info:
http://www.dailytech.com/Mythbusters...ticle12827.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmajlKJlT3U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-St_ltH90Oc

I'm going to call them on thursday but I just know they're either going to make me have this or cancel there will probably be no way to disable this or give me another card.

[HYHYBT]

They don't require a signature or PIN for "small" purchases on a magnetic card either. Ever use it at a Drive-Thru?

[Andara Bledin]

Most fast food places won't bother with a signature for the majority of transactions.

I know my local Subway won't bother below $20, and whether my favorite Jack in the Box does or not seems to be fairly haphazard. My not favorite Jack in the Box, however, gets a signature on every purchase, no matter how small.

^-.-^

[gremcint]

Most fast food places won't bother with a signature for the majority of transactions.

I know my local Subway won't bother below $20, and whether my favorite Jack in the Box does or not seems to be fairly haphazard. My not favorite Jack in the Box, however, gets a signature on every purchase, no matter how small.

^-.-^

And that is why I want the chip, but it defeats the purpose when they can jusr use paywave to skip the pin altogether.

[gremcint]

I called them today and I spoke to someone on the phone and basically if I want a chip I have to have the wireless with it period. The only thing they mentioned was if I have memory problems and can't remember a pin then I go back to the chipless card and have a signature.

I'm going to try to talk to them at an actual branch later. I still have over a month before my old card is no good.

[gremcint]

So my message to TD:

I do not want Visa Paywave, what are my options?

was responded to with:

Hello Mr. Redacted.
Thank you for taking the time to write to us regarding your TD Visa concerns. We would be happy to provide further assistance.

To further discuss your specific concerns with the Paywave technology and review available options, we recommend that you call TD Visa at 1-800-983-8472, 7 am to 12 am. A representative would be happy to assist. If you are currently overseas, we encourage you to call collect to (416) 307-7722.

We are able to confirm, that TD Visa's PayWave technology actually uses RF technology, not RFID tags. These cards contain secure microprocessors and memory, can perform cryptographic processing, have multiple functions and are required to operate within much smaller distances than RFID tags making them more secure.

Visa cardholders are protected against losses due to fraud by Verified by Visa, the CVV2, Address Verification Service (AVS), Visa's neural networks, Visa's E-Promise and Visa's Zero Liability protection policy. However, the potential for fraud with Visa PayWave cards is very low for the following reasons:

* Both the cards and Visa's processing network are equipped with sophisticated and multiple layers of security to monitor for and protect against fraud

* Personal cardholder information is not transmitted in Visa PayWave transactions and cannot be retrieved from the card if it were to be fraudulently scanned.

* Visa PayWave cards do not transmit the three digit security number, known as the Card Verification Value (CVV2), printed on the back of the card. Without the CVV2, a global security standard, it would be difficult to use the information to make fraudulent online transactions.

* In Canada, most purchases are under $ 50.00 which makes these cards and this payment system a much less attractive prospect for fraudsters

We can confirm that Chip and PIN technology has been in use in Europe for many years and has been proven to be more safe and reliable then regular magnetic stripe cards.

For more information about the chip and PayWave feature of TD Visa credit cards, please visit the following website:

http://www.tdcanadatrust.com/tdvisa/chip_paywave.jsp

Mr. Redacted, we do hope this information and direction proves helpful with your TD Visa concerns today. Please don't hesitate to respond should you have any additional questions.

Regards,

Sharla
Internet Correspondence Representative
_____________________________________________

TD Canada Trust 1-866-222-3456
TDD (Telephone Device for the Deaf) 1-800-361-1180

This makes me want it even less, I didn't mention security or anything and yet I get this big long email on security.

[Andara Bledin]

Honestly, they probably get a metric buttload of letters/emails/calls about the technology from people who are afraid that someone will come by and read all their data from 15 feet away. What you got was a standard form letter that mollifies likely 99% of all concerns, with a number (at the top, which is better than most) that you can call if you have any concerns that aren't covered.

^-.-^

[gremcint]

if they got that many concerned letters then why not have the option to say no to paywave?

[HYHYBT]

If the concerns are baseless and the new system really is so much better than the old one, it makes more sense to educate your customers.

[gremcint]

The concern is not baseless.

Let me put it this way, if your debit card allowed purchases up to $50 with no pin, no id, no signature, would you feel comfortable?

Also there is the fact that we simply are not given a choice, why do I have to have this feature? they've made chip cards with no paywave before so why can't I get one now? I should be allowed to say no I don't want this and get a chip card without it.

[Andara Bledin]

Let me put it this way, if your debit card allowed purchases up to $50 with no pin, no id, no signature, would you feel comfortable?

In the US, most of us with debit cards have hybrid debit/credit cards. To date, I have never been asked to show my ID when using my card as a Visa, no matter how much I was spending. During the 15+ years I've had the account, I've also never once signed any of my cards.

I'm just waiting until it's impossible to get a car without a chip in the key. I hate the idea of paying $100+ to get a spare made. >_<

^-.-^

[Evandril]

The concern is not baseless.

Let me put it this way, if your debit card allowed purchases up to $50 with no pin, no id, no signature, would you feel comfortable?

Also there is the fact that we simply are not given a choice, why do I have to have this feature? they've made chip cards with no paywave before so why can't I get one now? I should be allowed to say no I don't want this and get a chip card without it.

YOUR concern isn't baseless...but 90+% of the people are worried about what the letter you got concerns. 'Tis the same reason you have layers of tech support...the monkeys reading the scripts to deal with the idiots, and the second level techs to deal with the real problems

[radiocerk]

Thinking back to most of the card purchases I've made over the last month, I'd guess about half of them, especially one's under about 20 dollars didn't require a signature or PIN. At my pharmacy we don't need a signature on credit cards under $50.